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Topic: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

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  1. #1

    Talking Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    Ok, ok... sorry. This topic has been on ad-infinitum lately but, how does anybody feel "Nady" monitors. I've never used any of there stuff and I'm unsure of their quality. Bascially, I'm choosing between M-audio or Nady monitors. The M-audio is cheaper by $60 and far less wattage. (I don't have the model numbers on hand.) Which brand would YOU go with?

    P.S. to Kid Surf- I'm not getting Genelecs, but anything is an improvement over what I've got now eh?
    Last edited by joshj; 11-13-2004 at 10:15 AM. Reason: forgot to add nady
    I think a favorite gag in medival times was to sneak up behind a Knight and stick a "kick me" sign on his armor with a magnet.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    Neither. Save up your money and get something that's real. Put it on a credit card and vow to make the cash in time to pay.

    With either of those choices, you are just throwing away the money you spend, and you are not getting what you desire--a set of speakers capable of telling you what you're delivering.

    Until very recently, if you bought a studio monitor, you got a studio monitor. But the home music production market is hot, and everybody wants a piece of it. M-Audio doesn't build speakers. They don't know a bloody thing about building speakers. Ditto Nady. These are nothing products, designed to persuade you to part with a little of your money in hopes you're getting a bargain.

    But if it's not going to serve your needs, is it a bargain? I think it's wasted money. It's like going to Wal Mart to buy a shirt. Why spend $15 on a no-style, crappy shirt at Wal Mart, when you could go to a sale at Nordstrom's, Macy's, et. al., and buy decent clothes, on sale, for the same money?

    You just need to, first, decide you are NOT going to settle for crap, and second, devise a way to get what you need for the money you can scrape together.

    You don't have to get Genelecs to get a workable monitor. But those little M-Audio or Nady things are not going to get you over the hump.

    As quaint as it may sound, a pair of Event 20/20 BAS is going to be more accurate than either of those choices, even though the tweeters on those tend a little harsh.

    I would also look at Mackie 624s. They're less expensive than the 824, but they actually have tighter (although a little less) bass. It's easy to dismiss the Mackies as "old news," but there are an awful lot of 624's in surround suites and mix rooms all over the place. They do work.

    If I were going to buy nearfields right now, I would probably get Dynaudio BM6a's. They are as expensive as Genelecs, though. But they put such a good image forward!! I have heard many, many monitors over the years, and these are classics, in my estimation. You can "hear."

    People who are mixing orchestral music from samples have very specialized needs in a monitoring system--since it cannot be emphasized enough that you are dealing with disparate microphone techniques and perspectives in many cases. One must be able to zero in upon these differences in basic recording perspective, make a plan to integrate the individual soundscapes into a unified, plausible total mix, and to hear that plan implemented with absolute clarity. You must be able to really hear.

    Suggestions:

    Ebay: someone always needs to be rid of something!!

    Scratch/Dent and B-Stock: Call every retailer you can find, and ask about cosmetically damaged units or returns. Call the manufacturers and ask the same thing. Go to every music store you can find, and look at the display units. See anything with scratches or finger-pushed dust caps (the center "magnet cover" which d***heads ivariably are drawn to touch)? Ask to speak to the manager, and start tap dancing. Be SERIOUS about making some deal. You would be amazed at how willing, and even occasionally grateful, people can be for this. Someone might just admire your moxy, and offer you a ridiculous deal.

    Ask here: Ask here, and on other discussion groups. Find out if someone has upgraded to esoteric monitors, and has a good set of solid workhorse monitors they'd like to sell.

    I'm not trying to pull a snooty or elitist vibe here. Far from it. I just don't like to see people "settle" for something substandard when a little hustling might set them up. If you can find the money for new Nadys or M-Audios, then you can put a little more work and energy into the search, and come up with something better for that cash. Or, put it in the bank, buck up, and try to save enough to get into a tier of monitors that can actually last you a number of years. I just hate seeing people buy something they're going to hate the moment they unpack it.

  3. #3

    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    Bruce has spoken the truth again.
    Jonathan Kerr
    J.Kerr Music, Inc

  4. #4

    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    No "ugh" factor here, Josh. I'm looking for monitors, too, so good timing!

    Hey Bruce, have you heard the Event Tuned Reference 8 yet? I was considering the 20/20's, but from what I read, the TR8's pretty much use the same guts with an improved amp. Thanks for your insight.
    Scott

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce A. Richardson
    As quaint as it may sound, a pair of Event 20/20 BAS is going to be more accurate than either of those choices, even though the tweeters on those tend a little harsh.

  5. #5

    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    And if you're really strapped for cash, spend $80-$99 on a "keeper" pair of headphones, like the Sennheiser HD-280 Pros. You will still want to save up for some reference monitors, but it's better to mix with a great pair of cans along with some cheap computer speakers than the cheap computer speakers alone.

    -JF

  6. #6

    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    I'd like to follow up with what Bruce said. I some time ago bought a pair of cheaper m-audio monitors and regret it. It got to the point that I am primarily using my headhpnes (sony 7509's). I've put off the issue of getting new monitors for now until I actually own a house. Probably the one thing that always needs mentioning until death, it doesn't matter how good your monitors are if your room acoustics are not good.
    *looks around cunningly*

    So....what programs can help me with that ??

  7. #7
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    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    I forgive you Josh!

    But I'm with Bruce on this...

    I too would hate to see you end up with something that just sucked. I'd also suggest checking e-bay. You may be able to find a pair of Event 20/20p's for super cheap... I'd gravitate towards Event on the ultra low end. Although I heard good things about their ...uh, the "shinny black ones" (can't remember the model considering I'm set on monitors. )

    So yeah, there is a certain hump you wanna try to get over... so it'll be a worthwhile improvement. Otherwise it's pointless (like Bruce said). Look for a deal , or save a smidge more cash first.

    BTW--- how much are the 624's? I have no clue......



    BTW--- room acoustics are great and all, but there is a pretty big myth floating around on-line that correcting room acoustics is "more" important than monitor choice. The only time that is correct is when your room is friggn HELL. If your room is "ok" you will absolutely notice better mixes on kick azz monitors over computer speakers and 2k in sound absorption.

    You can only do so much to treat a room... you can't "fix it".....

    So take that "room acoustics" stuff with a small grain of salt... remember, many of the ones pushing this 'idea" don't use top of the line monitors... that should tell you something.


    KID-

  8. #8

    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    Did someone say Dynaudio?


  9. #9

    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    BTW--- room acoustics are great and all, but there is a pretty big myth floating around on-line that correcting room acoustics is "more" important than monitor choice. The only time that is correct is when your room is friggn HELL. If your room is "ok" you will absolutely notice better mixes on kick azz monitors over computer speakers and 2k in sound absorption.

    You can only do so much to treat a room... you can't "fix it".....

    So take that "room acoustics" stuff with a small grain of salt... remember, many of the ones pushing this 'idea" don't use top of the line monitors... that should tell you something.
    I must respectfully disagree with all of that, Kid, except for the part about the room being more important than the monitors (they're both extremely important). The room makes a *huge* difference, and you can make terrible rooms sound awesome with the right treatment in the right places.

    A good friend of mine lost his studio lease a few years ago, moved to a tiny resort town in Oregon, and set up his studio in his house. He literally cried when he first heard his control room, but after spending a few weeks learning about acoustics and playing with a measurement mic, he fixed all the problems with the right acoustical treatments. $10 grand later, you wouldn't believe how easy it is to hear in there now. (I don't think it was $10K, but it was at least $4K.)

    I have some stuff up in my room (an ASC Mix Station, some Auralex foam at the front, and some Auralex LENRD foam wedges), and it helped a lot. But after hearing my friend's studio when I was up there in August, I know that especially the low end in my room needs a lot of work.

    If you're talking about hearing basic balances, then sure, a good pair of speakers in a not-horrible room is going to get you 90% of the way there. But the extra 10% requires a good room.

    There's no substitute for space - all things being equal, a decent-sized room is going to sound better than a small one - but you can make almost any room sound acceptable.

    And I'm *not* talking about lining the whole thing with foam from head to toe. That only makes it worse.

  10. #10
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    Re: Ugh... another monitor question. Nady???

    Nick-

    No prob. respectfully taken...

    I think we are of the same mind on this, essentially.

    See, the problem I have is that I often hear "treatment" (I believe) as an excuse for bad monitors. I swear, it seems like 9 x outta 10 the guys railing about treatment have sub par monitors. (not referring to you or anyone here in particular, i'm generalizing). Although, then there is the other guy talking about treatment in the correct fashion. (You )

    Maybe, my hunch is wrong... but I don't think so. In fact, I think there needs to be an article that deals with "balance" in this regard (cus I feel there is an error in the hype about treatment right now, in that it's not being fully understood). I feel it is swayed (argumentatively) in favor of room over monitors. I'm saying let's look at the whole picture.

    I'm in total agreement that 4k would absolutely help ANY untreated room sound better. But you gotta have monitors that "match" the treatment IMO. And if you can only afford 'one', 4k monitors and $200 in treatment will yield better mixes than $200 monitors and 4k in treatment (unless the room is just hell). That's my position in a nutshell. :-)


    That's the myth I'm referring to...




    KID-

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