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Topic: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

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  1. #1

    Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    My gosh, can't we get a better price on this full version? $249 down from $449 is STILL pretty steep.

    I'm probably just asking this question rhetorically, but jeez.

    Besides Full pitch-bend, what other advantages?

    Stevemitchell

  2. #2
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    Lightbulb Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    How about a Group Buy? (For details on how these are run, see: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=26687 )

    Perhaps Gary has some influence with Native Instruments on pulling this off as a upgrade only for GPO users.

    KevinKauai

  3. #3

    Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    I do have bought the Kontak full version. The main advantages for me are: 1. 16 channels per instruments_2. I can change/edit the programming of the GPO patches_3. The routing capabilities as well as the integration in Cubase and V-Stack. If you do not need all this, then there is probably no need to buy the full version.

    Iwan

  4. #4
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    I have it, don't get enough time with it and wish I wasn't so stupid with it!
    Styxx

  5. #5

    Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    The advantages of using the full version of Kontakt have been stated above by others. I'll point out (again) one disadvantage of using Kontakt with the new update: When you load an instrument into the full version of Kontakt you must place cc21 data (value 64) at the beginning of the MIDI track or note lengths and release times will be too long. This is because the player now has length control (cc21). Each instrument has a corresponding text file that determines the default load values of the controller knobs in the player. For instruments that have Length control, instruments load at a setting of .5 which is half the actual setting of the programming. This value approximates the length of the instruments in the older library while giving the user the ability to now lengthen (or shorten) notes from this default value as needed. The full version of Kontakt does not support text file default values so the user must manually place cc21 data in the track.

    Tom

  6. #6

    Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    What they need to do is give us the option of changing the range of the pitch bend. This hard 2 semitone limitation is absolutely ridiculous.

    How the hell do you play horns nicely with a hardcoded 2 semitone pitchbend range?

    I was trying to get some nice brass MIDI files to sound good when playing them through GPO and...yep, you guessed it, spot on, this bloody pitch bend totally f****ed the whole thing, the horns sounded like they were completely (and I mean completely) out of tune.

    This thing needs to be fixed...fast!

    Cheers,
    Ben

  7. #7

    Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    And I'll bet you anything I'd be as easy as apple pie to give us the option of changing the pitchbend range...

    I mean, it's dead simple, right? Just allow us to change the pitchbend. I'm sure it's possible, and I can see pitchbend there with a slider bar, but changing it does nothing, doesn't make diddly squat difference. I'm pulling my hair out, literally!

  8. #8
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    Question Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    one disadvantage of using Kontakt with the new update: When you load an instrument into the full version of Kontakt you must place cc21 data (value 64) at the beginning of the MIDI track
    Tom - -

    Will the PLAYER and FULL version both live (in my preferred VST form) on the same system? Or when you upgrade, does the PLAYER version go away? (If so, I'll stay with the player version!)

    KevinKauai

  9. #9

    Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    Kevin,

    Not to worry. Installing the full version of Kontakt has no effect on the GPO player. They can be used at the same time as plugins if you wish since they are separate installations.

    Tom

  10. #10

    Re: Kontakt FULL for GPO users....

    Benjamind,

    You're sure posting up a storm here tonight. OK, pitchbend is the burr under your saddle so I'll try to address that.

    1. If you are getting the results you describe then you are not using GPO as it is designed to be used. GPO is *not* designed to be used with standard MIDI files (we've made that clear in many threads) - and that includes lots of different things, not just pitchbend. We have intentionally broken with the conventions of standard MIDI in any number of ways in an attempt to make the GPO instruments more expressively playable. The most obvious way is using the mod wheel for volume/timbre on Expressive type instruments. GPO certainly can be (and has been) used with standard MIDI files if you are willing to re-edit data and/or use the new X-Custom instruments, but that purpose was not one of the goals of the library.

    2. No, it isn't "easy as pie" to give users control over pitchbend range. Native Instruments made choices in the design of the player. As a library developer we program to those choices, we didn't make them. Pitchbend range was not one of the controls NI built into the player. Neither is it one of the parameters that can be assigned to MIDI control. Fortunately, when used as designed, it is not necessary. Please refer to the update documentation for details on how pitchbend is designed to be used in combination with cc#19 layer switching and cc#20 portamento control. These features provide tools for the application of realistic pitchbend and portamento but you need to do it using our methods. By the way, the slider in the player has no connection with pitchbend range - never has, never will. For a description of its intended function, again, read the update documentation. It is explained in detail.

    3. Given the built-in player limitations on pitchbend the 2 semitone assignment was chosen as the most useful amount for practical purposes. GPO instruments are, first and foremost, intended to be performable. One semitone range is too limited and three semitones is much more difficult to control from the pitch wheel (trying to accurately center pitch while performing). Greater intervals are even more problematic and not just from a performance standpoint. Beyond a few semitones the samples run afoul of formant transposition problems. Pitchbend of even a fifth sounds far from realistic while a full octave is laughable. If wide interval slides are required in a piece of music then other means must be employed. One of those "other means" is the portamento control. Portamento can be more successful because it always pitches to the destination note. The note on which the slide "lands" is playing back at its correct speed - its unity note, so there are no mangled formants.

    If you wish to use GPO with standard MIDI files then I suggest you strip out all pitchbend data and apply it manually in a manner consistent with GPO programming as described in the documentation. When used as designed it does its job well.

    Tom

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