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Topic: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

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  1. #1

    Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    There has to be some professionally recorded reverb impulse libraries in wav format that aren't limited to one software. Still the only ones I've come across to are the two Ernest Cholakis Pure Space cds. Based on the demos they sound marvellous but the price is simply too much. $399 for 55 impulses? Does anyone have those? There has to be other companies that have recorded concert halls and other real ambiences and sell them without a dedicated convolution processor. Where are they?

    I have downloaded every free impulse I have found and I have the Spirit Canyon impulse cds. Still I'm lacking especially in the concert hall impulses that I could use with VSL samples. I'm using Voxengo Pristine Space.

  2. #2

    Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    Quote Originally Posted by janila
    There has to be some professionally recorded reverb impulse libraries in wav format that aren't limited to one software. Still the only ones I've come across to are the two Ernest Cholakis Pure Space cds. Based on the demos they sound marvellous but the price is simply too much. $399 for 55 impulses? Does anyone have those? There has to be other companies that have recorded concert halls and other real ambiences and sell them without a dedicated convolution processor. Where are they?

    I have downloaded every free impulse I have found and I have the Spirit Canyon impulse cds. Still I'm lacking especially in the concert hall impulses that I could use with VSL samples. I'm using Voxengo Pristine Space.

    I will be releasing a 5 volume set of Rooms and Units for GigaPulse in early 2005.

    A small sample of rooms is included in the new "Larry Seyer Acoustic Drums" library. (see http://www.larryseyer.com/lsl for more information).

    Unfortunately, these impluses are going to be available in GigaPulse format only.

    The good news is that each bank of impulses is a complete room... 18 source placements and 7 channel surround.

    If you own GigaStudio 3.0, you already have impluses from a $15,000 reverb unit via the "Larry Seyer Reverb" impulses that come with GS3. (each is a full bank with 15 source placements and 5 channel surround)

    Best to you!

    Larry Seyer
    http://www.larryseyer.com
    NorthernSounds.NET.
    View Larry Seyer's Profile at NorthernSounds.net

  3. #3
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    Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    It might be that the free impulses are good enough that it's not worth the development costs. Maybe they couldn't sell enough to make money. And then there is waves. If you buy the waves impulse reverb you get their impulses. Makes the price more attractive.

  4. #4

    Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    I have been planning to create a commercial library of surround impulse sets of the TC 6000 and one for the Lex 960. Several audio formats, sample rates and bit depths, etc.

    However, I have postponed it for two reasons:

    1) I have absolutely NO idea what risks I might be taking with legal issues with TCE and Lexicon. My current liability insurance (I run my own 1 person software engineering company) does not cover software exports to the US, for instance and I do not (yet) have an insurance for legal support.

    2) I have also absolutely NO idea how much discs I could sell and thus it's very tricky to make a business plan with cost-benefit calculations. My last break-even calculations resulted in an end-user price of 65 euro per disc ($ 85). I think that is quite high - not too high for what you would get, but it is not in the range of quick "impulse" orders (pun intended )

    My costs would include: renting the two boxes (around 1200 euro for 1 week) including an RME Adat-AES/EBU converter; advertizing on NS, NoiseVault and V.I. (at least these 3), and maybe other forums, so that's several hundreds dollars more, a few weeks of sampling and editing time, plus getting a webshop up and running.

    The idea of doing some music-related project(s) is very attractive for me. However, as I still do most of my IT-projects on hour-based invoicing the risks of the upfront investments seem to outweigh the potential benefits.

    I really like to hear your opinions, if you use or intend to use convolution ambience plugins.

    Would there be legal risks? There have been long debates on NoiseVault about this, most of the time leading to silly rants against AltiVerb. If I completely avoid any brand names and types, would that be enough? For instance T5999 and Lacs959.

    And, what would be a reasonable estimate for orders, given some forum advertizing and discussions? 30-50? 100-150? I have really no idea.

    Maybe a "group buy"? hehe!

    FYI: I use Pristine Space (3 instances in my DAW of which 1 runs remotely via FX-Teleport) with impulses from Ernest Cholakis. Excellent quality, but mono-to-stereo only, alas. For that reason I would actually like to sample the TCE 6000 for my own use. There are currently no good stereo-to-stereo impulses on the market, unless you buy AltiVerb or IR-1. IMO the free impulses on the web are not really usable for a good orchestral sound.

    Regards,

  5. #5

    Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    Peter,
    I think the legal question is interesting. I am not an attorney, but I do own an impulse disk that Samplitude put out about 4-5 years ago that provides impulses from TC and Lexicon high end units, so it seems theoretically possible. The impulses were designed to be used in Samplitude or Sound Forge Acoustic Mirror. I don't know, however, if Samplitude paid anything to the companies or got their permission. When I get home, I'll check the documentation to see if they disclose any licensing or copyright- I don't recall seeing anything. I know I paid at least $100 for them, but I'm pretty sure it was $200.

    I would be interested in these impulses if the quality was there, even if they were relatively expensive- they're still cheaper than the real boxes!

  6. #6

    Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Seyer
    Unfortunately, these impluses are going to be available in GigaPulse format only.
    Your products are interesting but the platform is a problem. I don't even want to use GigaStudio as my sampler so using it as a reverb unit would be rather silly. GS3 doesn't have any kind of licence control for the samples/impulses (right?) so releasing the the spaces also in .wav format wouldn't be that much more insecure. Are you doing only rooms suitable to be used with your drums or are you doing bigger spaces as well?

    Sampling hardware units has to be legal as there are tons of free Lexicon and TC impulses available in the Noisevault and they have been available for ages. There are even impulses from the M6000 and they are called M6000 impulses. Of course it might be a different case for commercial approaches. You don't sign any kind of an agreement with TC or Lexicon when buying their units so I don't know of any legal ground they could have for a case against selling impulses from their units.

    Peter, what would be your approach to the impulses so that your product would have commercial potential even when there are free impulses available of the units? I'm not saying it would be impossible to sell those but they would have to be something a bit special.

    I've been playing with the idea of doing my own impulses of actual spaces. I would be doing them so that it wouldn't be an economical disaster even if I would use them myself without selling them to anyone. Then I might sell them cheap as downloadable files from a web store. No high profile concert halls and churches but good sounding spaces as generally named impulses like Wooden concert hall, width x meters, height y meters, distance z meters. I have most of the equipment required to do them and I could transport them by train. The biggest problem would obviously be the access to the spaces. The other option is buying the Waves IR-L. Maybe I'll keep playing with the idea for a while.

  7. #7

    Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    Quote Originally Posted by janila
    Your products are interesting but the platform is a problem. I don't even want to use GigaStudio as my sampler so using it as a reverb unit would be rather silly. GS3 doesn't have any kind of licence control for the samples/impulses (right?) so releasing the the spaces also in .wav format wouldn't be that much more insecure. Are you doing only rooms suitable to be used with your drums or are you doing bigger spaces as well?
    What I said was GigaPulse... not GigaStudio... There is a difference.

    GigaPulse VST should be out soon and you can use that plugin without GigaStudio... the libraries that I am working on are for GigaPulse (both the VST version and the one that comes with GigaStudio Orchestra... the library works in both).

    We are developing a 5 volume set... The content ranges from simple reverb units to real spaces that range in size from tiny to huge...

    Each release will be specialized in one area... and the price will be set so that it is very affordable... (we want people to buy the entire set, but will offer it in pieces if that is easier for them)


    Sampling hardware units has to be legal as there are tons of free Lexicon and TC impulses available in the Noisevault and they have been available for ages. There are even impulses from the M6000 and they are called M6000 impulses. Of course it might be a different case for commercial approaches. You don't sign any kind of an agreement with TC or Lexicon when buying their units so I don't know of any legal ground they could have for a case against selling impulses from their units.
    The fact that there are free Lexicon and TC impluses available for free in the Noisevault doesn't make them legal does it? :-)

    Best to you!

    Larry Seyer
    http://www.larryseyer.com
    NorthernSounds.NET.
    View Larry Seyer's Profile at NorthernSounds.net

  8. #8

    Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Blaske
    I have an interesting situation. I recently bought the TL Space convolution reverb plug-in to use with PT Accel hardware (it runs with very low latency on the Accel DSP, not using any CPU cycles). In addition to having a lot of its own presets, it also reads the IR's from my other convolution reverbs. It sees the huge compilation of IR's from my Logic 7 installation, plus my other convolution applications.

    I could drive myself totally INSANE auditioning all the convolution reverb options I have and never get any work done.

    Sometimes, more options is simply too many options.

    Besides, I've found that a lot of verb detail is really only apparent in fairly sparse contexts, and I have a tendency to produce stuff a tad on the thick side.

    Lee Blaske
    I totally understand.

    Which is why we're considering grouping and naming our GigaPulse banks into what they would be most appropriately used for...

    A description of a room's dimensions and material makeup tells the end user nothing about what it would be good for... So we're considering the possibility of 'suggesting' where each bank would be best used via their names.

    Of course, naming anything changes its original intent... But it doesn't hurt to at least point the end user in the direction of where each bank may work best first.

    Actually, I would be interested in hearing any suggestions as to how this would be best handled...

    Please send any suggestions concerning the naming conventions to me at:

    gigapulse@larryseyer.com

    Best to you!

    Larry Seyer
    http://www.larryseyer.com
    NorthernSounds.NET.
    View Larry Seyer's Profile at NorthernSounds.net

  9. #9

    Thumbs up Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    I think that this year will be a good one for impulse libraries. I keep bugging Spirit Canyon Audio to release surround versions of their impulse set. It's wild, wooly and sometimes even downright scary...

    In the absense of a specifically designed surround set I've managed to work in surround by picking several of their stereo impluses and running them in a dual "true stereo" mode. Loads of fun that you can get away with in imaginary spaces.

    There's also Voxengo's Impulse Modeler program, which allows you to design some very nice, complicated spaces that do an incredible job of representing a "real" space. Alexy is working on a surround-capable version as well that I'll be buying as soon as its available.

    Garritan has also made mention of an impulse project in his forum, but no details are forthcoming yet. He's already released some great stereo impulses with GOS, and I imagine that he'll build on that in some way.

    The Winter NAMM convention is only 5 or so weeks away. We'll probably see more announcements around that time.
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  10. #10

    Exclamation Re: Where are all the commercial reverb impulse libraries?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterRoos
    I have been planning to create a commercial library of surround impulse sets of the TC 6000 and one for the Lex 960. Several audio formats, sample rates and bit depths, etc.

    However, I have postponed it for two reasons:

    1) I have absolutely NO idea what risks I might be taking with legal issues with TCE and Lexicon.
    Whether it's free or commercial, you take the risk of getting cooked unless you have a licensing deal or some other form of permission from the companies ahead of time.
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

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