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Topic: Waves IR-Lite?

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  1. #1

    Waves IR-Lite?

    Waves IR Lite? Anyone care to comment? I'm already saving up to pick up the Renaissance Maxx and the Native Power Pack v.5. This one is new I think but contains the same impulses as the full version. The controls are simplified it says, but I'm not knob tweaker usually.

    http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/...t.cfm?pid=5922

    Comments? Suggestions? I use SIR right now, but the impulses sometimes leave a lot to be desired. I'm wondering if this is a good substitute for Gigapulse for room impulses. I really don't feel like messing with Giga 3 anymore.

  2. #2

    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    I'm more than interested in the same thing. I have the Voxengo Pristine Space which is a great plugin but the available impulse files aren't usually good enough. The greatest problem is the lack of good concert hall impulses, I usually end up using atleast two different spaces to get even close to the sound I'm after. It's easy enough to get a decent chamber sound but I'm still searching for that distant and huge string sound. With the non-commercial impulse files I usually end up feeling that the sound isn't wet enough because the impulse itself has too much of the dry signal. Has somebody used both IR-1/IR-L and Altiverb and could do a comparison between the impulse libraries available for them?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burrell
    Waves IR Lite? Anyone care to comment? I'm already saving up to pick up the Renaissance Maxx and the Native Power Pack v.5. This one is new I think but contains the same impulses as the full version. The controls are simplified it says, but I'm not knob tweaker usually.

    http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/...t.cfm?pid=5922

    Comments? Suggestions? I use SIR right now, but the impulses sometimes leave a lot to be desired. I'm wondering if this is a good substitute for Gigapulse for room impulses. I really don't feel like messing with Giga 3 anymore.
    Not sure why you're so reluctant on Giga 3.0. The bug-fixes have been very effective and timely so far, so you may not have anything to fear. If you've already bought it, I can't imagine not using it!!

    That said, for reverb purposes (not so much the modeling/design tie ins), IR-1 is a fantastic tool. IR-1 lite gives you significantly less control than the full IR-1, but the quality of the impulses is the same, of course.

    I'm not knob tweaker usually.
    Knobs are your friends!!!

    With reverb, you really do need to tweak on presets in almost every case.

    What you lose with IR-1 lite is the ability to affect the balances within the impulse, as well as to adjust the damping and EQ inherent in the impulse.

    Where this will be problematic is in the balancing of room reflections existing in your samples with the impulse, to marry up the acoustic signatures.

    For example, with VSL you generally want to lighten up the early reflections just a bit, because VSL contains one strong early reflection "cycle" as a part of its design. In practice, this is what defines the rear and side walls around the image when you've panned out your soundstage.

    So, you would not want to have quite as much early reflection being processed in your convolver, to prevent muddying up the basic early imagery. For a bone-dry library, you'd want all the early reflections intact. For a library with full ambient content, you'd probably only want to augment its reverb tails and to forego early reflection processing altogether. Otherwise, you get a lot of smearing--which can make something image in a completely different place than intended due to the non-linear artifacts you'd be introducing.

    This is true of even of algorithmic reverbs. One of the reasons people complain about the sound of perfectly good reverbs is that they have no idea how to set them up per the above, so they're doing a lot more smearing than they should be. It's easy to get seduced by the smearing effect of reverb, and in many cases, imaging work which should be accomplished by EQ, panning, and width manipulation of the original wave gets pushed back into the reverb stage. Then, all the reflections start competing with one another, the reflections get "reflected" and the aforementioned artifacts degrade the sound rather than enhance it.

    So, learn to love those knobs if you want great results. They all exist for a reason.

  4. #4

    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    Well, I lied a little bit. I like to tweak knobs, but are those knobs necessarily worth the other 300 dollars? Hmmm... I don't know. So to have these impulses at $299 it means I'll just have to suffer.

  5. #5

    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    The Altiverb site has a straightforward comparison between the two. It starts with the words So IR1's got more knobs... I agree with Bruce about the importance of understanding and doing instead of just doing. Still I'm a bit sceptical about the knobs in the IR-1. Is the IR-1 really able to "decode" the impulse file so that it can offer all those controls and still sound good? Altiverb is a more professional, more efficient and better sounding reverb at a better price. Does Audioease have a point or an attitude?

  6. #6

    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    Altiverb is Mac only, so that knocks it out for me.

    Of course, when reading a first party statement that says "oooohhhh we're so much better than these guys" you shouldn't take it for fact.

  7. #7

    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    Joseph, I looked at the screen shot of the lite version and it should do you just fine. I have the full version but in all honesty what's included in the lite version is pretty much all I use anyway. Many of the impulses just need "dried" out a little and they're good to go. It might have only two channels and not the four channels in the full version... but if that ain't a big deal to you then go for it!
    I think a favorite gag in medival times was to sneak up behind a Knight and stick a "kick me" sign on his armor with a magnet.

  8. #8

    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    I have the Full IR-1 and my life has never been the same, just the quality of the IR`s alone is worth it.. I`m sure the lite one would be enough for most stuff..Rich

  9. #9

    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burrell
    Altiverb is Mac only, so that knocks it out for me.
    I have hard time deciding whether I want to use my current PC DAW and buy a G5 as a sampler or to buy a G5 DAW and use the PC as a sampler. Two PCs isn't an option as I would like to have both up and running simultaneously every now and then. This makes IR-L a good option because it supports both platforms.

    Of course, when reading a first party statement that says "oooohhhh we're so much better than these guys" you shouldn't take it for fact.
    In most cases I agree with this but actually I think that in some cases that kind of arrogance is based atleast on a partial truth. It is easy to say that "our product is the best there is" but a lot harder to say that "our product is better than product X and that claim is based on the following facts." Altiverb is state of the art and IR-1 is the challenger. Therefore it isn't just marketing bull~~~~ even if it is just marketing.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Waves IR-Lite?

    Quote Originally Posted by janila
    The Altiverb site has a straightforward comparison between the two. It starts with the words So IR1's got more knobs... I agree with Bruce about the importance of understanding and doing instead of just doing. Still I'm a bit sceptical about the knobs in the IR-1. Is the IR-1 really able to "decode" the impulse file so that it can offer all those controls and still sound good? Altiverb is a more professional, more efficient and better sounding reverb at a better price. Does Audioease have a point or an attitude?
    An attitude.

    They're comparing Version 1. The latency of IR-1 is extremely low on a PC, I can't comment on Altiverb. As far as spaces, give me a break. Super subjective. Few of the points at the top of the page are valid when comparing the current IR-1. In fact, the current version of IR-1 pretty handily exceeds the points Altiverb makes in its favor on this page.

    "Parameters that change as you tweak" is very highly misleading. IR-1's parameters change while you tweak, unless it is literally rebuilding the Impulse (which it can and does do to affect balances, EQ, decorrellation, and other aspects of the impulse). Even at that, it is the most slight gap as the impulse reloads and continues processing.

    They continue on and on saying things which are absolutely untrue. They imply that IR-1's impulses are captured only with mid/side coincident pairs. That's utter bunk. One needs only visit the Waves website to see that rooms are captured in mid/side, x/y, and a/b omni.

    I have no opinion about Altiverb. I certainly have an opinion about one manufacturer telling lies about another's product in order to discourage people from exploring it. And unless Macs are just miserably slow (which I am quite sure they are not) it is ludicrous to claim that audio breaks up after inserting only two IR-1s. That is most likely the fault of some other code, not IR-1. Heck, you can run IR-1s in realtime in GigaStudio, and barely perceive any latency difference in a REALTIME environment!!! To claim that there is too much latency to run in DAW environment is pure madness.

    One thing you can say about Waves is that they do not lightly include features. In requesting more "knobs" an end user is usually told that the company policy is "lean and mean."

    Trust me on this...I have been using IR-1 since the day it was created, and there is very much purpose behind each and every setting on the plugin. AudioEase has an agenda, and that agenda seems to be prejudicing people against IR-1 by means of ad hominem and outright hyperbole.

    And yes, IR-1 really does alter the impulse file itself in realtime.

    Two and a half years after Audio Ease debuted Altiverb, Waves released their answer: the IR1. The IR1's main selling point is that it's got more parameters. Audio Ease likes as pure a convolution as possible. Rather than offering more knobs, Altiverb offers more acoustic samples per room, and more rooms.
    Here's a little example of the hyperbole.

    One could just as easily say, "Five years after Sonic Foundry offered Acoustic Mirror, Audio Ease released their answer: Altiverb."

    Nothing but marketing drivel, folks. Again...I'm not dissing the quality of Altiverb. It's probably a very fine product. But this little page is just a load of steaming marketing poo, nothing more. It is almost completely irrelevant to the question of technological quality or musical uses.

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