Thank you Charles. These are things we all know but none wants to hear.
Thank you Charles. These are things we all know but none wants to hear.
Thank you, Charles
DJ: There was support by most Iraqis for the removal of Saddam Hussein. But that started to ebb quickly on in the occupation as people watched family members killed, detained, tortured and humiliated by the occupation forces.
Then there was Abu Ghraib. I cannot stress enough how devastating this was to US credibility in Iraq, and the entire Middle East.
Throw on top of that the April siege of Fallujah, nearly complete lack of reconstruction, importation of foreign workers to do jobs Iraqis are far more qualified for, the installation of an illegal interim government, and you have a complete PR disaster for the US here.
Any credibility for the occupiers, and I doubt there was much to speak of, after the destruction of Fallujah has been lost. Iraqis I speak with are infuriated at the US government. While they are well aware that what is most likely the majority of people in the US being in opposition to the Bush regime, they believe the US government and those who support it are guilty of war crimes of the worst kind. I see rage, grief, and the desire for revenge on a daily basis here.
They hate Allawi. They have no respect for him or any other of the puppets in the US-installed interim government, because they don't see how any self-respecting person would allow themselves to be a puppet of the US in this illegal, brutal endeavor.
They are well aware that he is an exile who has been linked with the CIA and British intel for a long, long time. He and the rest of the interim government are views as thieves, rapists and US pawns. They are utterly loathed, as everyone here knows these people do not have the interests of the Iraqi people in mind.
The elections are viewed as a joke. Most here now believe there is no way they can be held in an honest, transparent and truly democratic way. Most are also too afraid to vote. I've heard people say things like, "The Americans won't even allow a legitimate election in their own country, so why would they want to have one here!"
The Iraqi "security" forces, being the police and national guard, are viewed by most as surrogates of the US military. They are viewed as collaborators and traitors by most. While people understand many of these forces join out of desperation because there are no jobs, they remain loathed, along with the foreign occupation forces. It doesn't help when many of the police are actively involved in organized crime. Lastly, the occupation is viewed as endless. Iraqis know there are already 4 permanent military bases here, and more soldiers coming. There is little hope amongst those I talk with about this topic that the occupation will end.
All very plausible, I think.
Here he talks about something I saw on television: video footage of American soldiers inside a mosque killing this elderly man. The video went pretty much like this: "I think this one is alive." Next you see a Marine shoot this old guy in the head, saying "Not any more." A few other things were said, which wouldn't pass the censors here at NS.
Did that make the US media? If it did, I didn't here anything about it here at NS. It was truly shocking.
Anyway, I think that's the video he's referring to in the following:
I do support Kevin Sites' decision to film what he did of the execution of the old, unarmed Iraqi man in the mosque. 100% I support this. People need to see that this is what is occurring here-and this is NOT an isolated incident. Nearly every refugee from Fallujah I've interviewed has spoken of mass executions, tanks rolling over the wounded in the streets, bodies being thrown in the Euphrates by the military, and other atrocities.
The footage of the execution in the mosque is akin to the photos that came out of Abu Ghraib. They are only the tip of the iceberg of atrocities that have been occurring here from the beginning. Atrocities that are occurring right now. Indeed, those soldiers just got caught. This is not news, however-because we've even had military commanders come out in the media and admit that they gave orders to soldiers to shoot anything that moved in Fallujah. What we will see in Fallujah is that it has been a genocide.
Here's his website:
This is really sad:
<H2>December 18, 2003</H2>
Another Home Pillaged, More Illegal Detentions
On December 9th, at 10pm, US soldiers stormed a home in Al Ewadiyah neighborhood of Baghdad. Taharoh Muhammad Munahi Al Rufayai, a 43 year old college professor, Leith, her brother and a retired army officer and their elderly aunt Fahad. The soldiers forced the inhabitants to stand outside at gunpoint for five and a half hours in their bed clothes while they searched and pillaged the home, destroying much of its contents while looking for weapons and members of the resistance. Twenty soldiers picked through the home, while many more waiting outside with the family members, amidst hummers and light tanks, while helicopters circled above.
Om Fadah, 44 years old and a psychologist who owns the home with her husband lives nearby. She uses this alias, for fear of further reprisals from the Americans. She arrived quickly to the home after she saw all of the soldiers, and witnessed the events of the terrible night that occurred to her brother, sister and aunt, who she was allowing to stay in her home for many years.
She lives in fear now, for when the soldiers finally left that night, they took her brother Leith with them. Furthermore, the following day the soldiers returned, asking for her brother-in-law Iftihar, who was at that time accompanying her father, Abu Fahar, at the nearby Rasafah US base trying to obtain information about Leith’s whereabouts. Although the soldiers told Om Fahadh that they had incorrect information and had raided the wrong home because someone had told them a resistance fighter lived there, they asked for Iftihar. Unable to find Iftihar, the soldiers instead took Taharoh, and gave no reason as to why.
While this is occuring, Iftihar and Abu Fahar learn from the commander of the base that the storming of the home is simply US policy now and that wrong information was the reason their home was raided. Yet the commander was unable to provide any information as to the whereabouts of Leith, and now both he and Taharoh remain detained, whereabouts unknown.
A look through the devastated home reveals stacks of Taharoh’s books thrown on the floor, most of the dishes and glasses broken, furniture ripped apart and destroyed, flour and rice poured out of their sacks and spread across the floor. Antique wooden furniture sits lopsided atop broken legs, the back cushions of sofas and padded chairs are cut apart from being searched.
Terrible as it was that Leith had been taken to prison for no reason, he wasn’t the only thing taken illegally from the home. Om Fahadh tells me jewelry and gold were taken, $1,900 of Taharo’s money, Fahad is missing $60 of her retirement money, two expensive watches, and between $1,750 and $2,500 of Leith’s money, which he was saving as he was to be married soon. One of the watches was recovered the next day, returned by their neighbor who had watched an American jump from the fence between the two homes into his yard, then go to the street. Upon inspection in his yard the next day, he found a watch that had been dropped by the soldier.
Thinking they had discovered a small arms cache, the soldiers placed a wooden military box found under one of the beds in the back of a hummer. When they finally opened it, to their surprise they find it is merely filled with school books. Taharoh had found the empty box in the street after the Anglo-American Invasion.
Fahad suffers from diabetes, and from her condition must relieve herself often. She begged, through an Iraqi interpreter of the soldiers, to use the restroom, but to no avail. She even suggested they allow her to use the restroom while accompanied by a soldier. This was declined, and while weeping she was forced to urinate on herself while soldiers stood by laughing at her with the interpreter.
Many of their belongings were strewn about the roof as the soldiers picked through everything.
After the soldiers finished searching and pillaging the home and left, the remaining members went to the roof to gather the belongings which had been tossed about, amongst a smoldering mattress and heater the soldiers had lit on fire. While doing so helicopters continued to circle above them.
Tears well in her eyes as she tells me she understands the need for the soldiers to search for resistance fighters.
“Let them search. OK. But why burn these things on our roof? Why steal from us? Why destroy our home? We want to know why.”
She goes on to tell me that she can’t understand the mistreatment and humiliation wrought upon her family members, as they have done nothing wrong.
“We didn’t fight them when they came here.” She doesn’t know where her brother and sister are being held. They went to the CPA to ask, as they had heard a rumor that they were being held at the airport prison. But the CPA told her they did not have any information about her brother and sister.
“I’ve lost all my time. All I can think of are my brother and sister now.”
We did discuss the video here on NS. One thing that came out was that the day before this happened, a soldier in the same platoon had been killed by a booby-trapped Iraqi pretending to be dead.Originally Posted by JohnGrant
However, I saw the video too, in its entirety. Elderly? How do you know? Considering no one could see the guy who got shot, now you're taking Jamail's word for it, and incorporating it into your recollections.
I think it's just dandy we have people like charles around to post anti-American diatribes every single day. One day it's an indictment of capitalism, another day Iraq, Christianity the next.
Zmag---hey, there's an impartial source.
And try Googling this Jamail character---hardly what one could consider an objective observer...
We get it already. Many of you hate America. It's getting old. On any given day, the majority of the posts on this board are anti-America. ("Oh, heavens, no. We don't hate America. Just American foreign policy. And the American president. And the influence of Christianity on American domestic affairs. And American attitudes towards gays...)...etc...etc...etc...
Spread the love.
This reporter, by his own words, obviously had an agenda and an opinion BEFORE going to Iraq. So it's not surprising that he "found" just exactly what he was looking for when he decided to go to Iraq.
One thing I can't help but consider, however, is the fact that since he is not embedded, he probably lacks some contextual information that would place certain things in a very different light? For instance, his insistence that US troops were "sniping" at ambulences, medical workers, etc. Perhaps since he is not with the military and probably receives none of their inside information, he is unaware of the fact that US troops have been under attack specificaly by ambulences and people posing as medical workers? And if he is, in fact, referring to the instance that was shot in video of a soldier shooting a wounded Iraqi, again, he probably lacks the context of knowing that this same soldier had one of his buddies killed the day before in just such a scenario because he took for granted that the wounded Iraqi wasn't boobytrapped.
Or perhaps he is aware of these factors, but chooses to say nothing of them because, as he has made perfectly clear, he has a political agenda and mentioning these things would diminish the effect of his propagandizing. If this is the case, consider how dishonest this person must be to report that troops are sniping at ambulences without including the fact that the ambulences have been firing on the troops.
So that leaves us with two possibilities:
1 - This reporter is only partially informed.
2 - This reporter is grossly dishonest and is witholding important information to advance his own personal political agendas.
What you fail to understand is that "we" love america and hate to see it this way. But unlike you, our patriotism extends it self to being able and willing to demand that our country holds up the ideals it preaches. You on the other hand refuse to even examine it's beheviour because it's Un-American. You in essence are a traitor to it's cause.Originally Posted by XanaX