Synful orchestra.. anyone try this yet?

[Hardy Heern]

(MCS) Michael, I'm really enjoying listening to your examples - both the concerto and ThemeForHer. A couple of thoughts:

1) This is complex enough playing that Delay for Expression probably would make a difference especially in the fast Concerto stuff.

2) It sound like the volume pedal (and/or velocities) could be scaled back a bit. This would get a warmer sound. This is pretty easy to do. Also some more exagerrated use of the volume pedal might sound good.

3) In some of the faster passages it sounds like some triming of note overlaps and separation could clean things up a bit. This is harder to do obviously.

Great work! I'm impressed. We're obviously going to have to start a user demo section on the Synful site soon.

Eric Lindemann
Synful CEO

You mean, this www.mimesc.com/music/SynfulSoloViolin.mp3 could get better??!!

frank

[Synful]

There is currently a one second delay when Delay for Expression is on. This is because right now the sequencers (Cubase, Sonar, etc) do not provide a way for a plugin to look ahead in a MIDI sequence. This would be the ideal solution and I think eventually this will happen -- perhaps with pressure from the user community. When this happens we can do away with the one second delay and the benefits of Delay for Expression will happen automatically when you're playing a sequence.

Eric Lindemann

[R. Glenn]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to make a few comments about the immediate future plans for Synful Orchestra. I agree with many of the comments about Synful Orchestra not being complete yet. We intend to do the following over the next several months:

1) Many instrument improvements especially in brass.
2) A couple of flavors of muted brass.
3) String pizz, harmonics, tremolo, and some other variants
4) Better trill support (some trills sound good now as in the Rite of Spring example)
5) Bass Clarinet, Tuba, Piccolo
6) String sections and other instrument sections.

Most of these will be available as a free update. Eventually we will have a paid upgrade with the usual kind of upgrade rates but that won’t be for a year and most or all of this will be done by then. The string sections may be packaged separately.

Eric...

Thank's for the info...much appreciated. Sounds very promising and the concept seems to have nice potential. It will be very interesting to see this evolve.

Cheers

Rodney

[Synful]

Synful will be at Winter NAMM but currently we don't have a booth. We applied too late unfortunately. In any case we will be doing demos and talks in a suite. I will post annoucement of details. Anyone interested who hasn't already downloaded a demo should email to be put on the notification list. Those who did download will receive an annoucement about NAMM details.

Anyone who has some influence with the NAMM people or who wants to share a booth please contact me. We'd still like to be on the floor!

[charles]

when this is fully developed goodby vsl

[YBaCuO]

Here is another first attempt example.

NOTE: Only the 1st violin is Synful, the other parts are GPO.

Haydn String Quartet from Op 76 Only 1st violin in Synful

http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=402

Here is the full GPO for comparison
http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=364

YBaCuO

[JohnCarter]

when this is fully developed goodby vsl

Well we should wait for the instrument sections to see if it's the dead of VSL

[R. Glenn]

Lee...

Well....if making it sound as much as the real thing isn't the goal (but rather having a synthy sound), then why bother with products based on real orchestral intruments (sampled or otherwise) in the first place...when you can achieve the same results, or better, with a common synth?

I think there is no doubt that overall, the ultimate goal is indeed 100% realism...anything else would be a waste of our time. Granted, that goal may very well never be fully achieved...but the point is that we strive towards it nevertheless.

when this is fully developed goodby vsl

First of all, define "fully developed". Second, as this develops so will other tools/libraries (including VSL).

IMO, the commercial library with the most realistic full orchestra sound at this time is VSL. Of all the commercial library demos I've heard...they are the ones that comes closest to sounding like the real thing I think. Of course quality it depends on the user...but IMO the best VSL demos are the most realistic sounding commercial ones hands down.

As other performance tools (such as the ones used in VSL) are refined, we will most likely see easier performed and better sounding expression in tools based on samples as well.

If the makers of sequencers should implement "look ahead" features and with the coming release of tools such as AMP...my guess is that more sample based libraries will make use of it as well.

Considering the technique Synful uses to generate sound (no samples) I must confess I think the result is pretty good. However, I still think it's current weakness it's tone and texture of the sounds (the sustains in particular)...while it's major strong point is achieving good expression in a very effortless manner

All in all, it depends on what you're after. I think that Synful's extreme ease of use and effortless phrasing and expression, together with it's easy toll on computer resources makes it a great orchestral sketchpad and excellent when speed is a crucial factor (especially once it has more intruments and articualtions).

However, if it's to compete with other commercial orchestral sample libs in terms of sound quality...then I think it will have to improve the character of the sounds. How far it can be improved and how long it will take...only time can tell.

It's an fascinating approach, and considering this is the first we see of it...it seems very promising indeed. We'll just have to wait and see (and listen) I guess.

Cheers

Rodney

[charles]

Lee...

Well....if making it sound as much as the real thing isn't the goal (but rather having a synthy sound), then why bother with products based on real orchestral intruments (sampled or otherwise) in the first place...when you can achieve the same results, or better, with a common synth?

i dont think your comparison works, we bother emulating because musical history has developed in certain ways for good reasons, a violin sound didnt just drop out of the sky, the literature for that instrument is rich in human exploration and experience that sound is in our ears and mind. Its the emulation of what has happened to the development of past sounds and its use for future exploration that is interesting.



First of all, define "fully developed". Second, as this develops so will other tools/libraries.

Well i think lee hit it with his frankenstein analogy, at the moment the technology feels like you are trying to swim with a chain and iron ball around your neck, think of playing a real instrument it is nowhere near as complex, sure to perfect the muscianship takes a life time , but the actual instruments themselves are simple, now if the orchestra can be sensed as an instrument with the same simplicity than we have truly been freed from worrying about the iron ball and concentrating on the orchestral instrument in its pure sense, like i would if i was strumming my guitar and not thinking about all the obstacles that stand in the way.

I used the term not full developed because a flood of saxophone discussions came to my mind on this very board, in fact with one of Sharmy saxophone posts , and this is such good news to see that a start has been taken in such a realistic and positive direction, and from nowhere, the other big developers will definetly have to do some thinking about direction in the future. The complex combination of techniques of an unaccompanied instrument was always the hardest to emulate and i remember thinking that the present technology will never bridge that gap so this development is a very positive beginning.

[dezai]

This is easily the most interesting orchestral vsti development I've heard all year.

Wow.

The "in-betweens" in MCS' solo violin sample are so impressive (with no controllers!), that I don't really care about how synthy the sustained parts sound.

I'm excited to see how this technology develops. Cause I really really hate editing.