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Topic: a Mac -> PC (GS3) 2 x MTP network

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    a Mac -> PC (GS3) 2 x MTP network

    Note: this (very) long post will be of no interest to anyone, *UNLESS* you're trying to set up a midi interface network using multiple MOTU MTP's with data flowing from a Mac to a PC running GigaStudio. If that's you, read on, McDuff!!

    here's a map of the journey that I took to get it all to (seemingly) work. My particular goal was a "DigitalPerformer -> GigaStudio 3 via 2 MTP AV's network", but hopefully some of the info in here might apply to anyone trying to do a network using two MTP's and two computers of differing operating systems.
    By the way, anyone out there that's found a simpler way to accomplish this, please let me know!
    Anyway, Here goes....

    My setup;
    I have Digital Performer (DPerf) running on a Mac G4 (OS X 3.1.7) and GigaStudio 3 (GS3) running on a PC (Windoze XP Home). I also have a MOTU MTP AV USB (Box A) connected "USB" to the Mac and an MTP AV (Box B) connected "parallel" to the PC. Box A & B are connected to each other with a "serial" network cable. Both computers are also running the current version of Clockworks.

    Regarding the Mac, I have 6 synth boxes - Kurzweil, Roland, Emu, etc. -((the "synths")) that each require one "midi out" port to generate sound and one Kurzweil MidiBoard keyboard (the "kybd.") that requires one "midi in" port to send it's midi data to the system.
    Regarding the PC, I run GigaStudio as a sampler (playback only) and, as GS3 now "sees" 8 midi ports (each with 16 channels).

    My goal;
    So, of the 16 midi out ports and 16 midi in ports available on my *networked* Boxes, I was attempting to use a total of 14 "outs" (6 for "synths", 8 for "GS3") and 1 "in" for the Kybd. My efforts were to get midi data from tracks created in DPerf all the way over to the instruments setup on GS3.

    My first "misunderstanding?";
    Based on the following from the MTP AV manual, pg.24 where a "Connecting a Mac & PC" is described, it states. "In this scenario, both the Mac and the PC have full access to all of the MTP AV's ports. THE COMPUTERS CAN EVEN SEND DATA TO EACH OTHER". It was that last line that led me to believe that data could flow as follows;
    (a.) data out of Mac -> Box A,
    (b.) data from Box A -> Box B via the Network cable,
    (c.) data from Box B -> the PC via the Parallel cable.
    It was this last item (c.) that I seem to have misunderstood(?). That is, data coming in on Box B's network port won't pass *directly* to Box B's Parallel port and on to the PC. It seems that data coming in on Box B's network port only flows to Box B's Midi Outs. And, only data flowing in to Box B's Midi In's will flow on to Box B's Parallel port and then on to the PC. This seeming to be the case, I was going to have to use midi cables to attach Box B's Midi Outs to Box B's Midi Ins. not a major hassle (at first), but it seems to fly in the face of MOTU's description quoted above.
    Having 'cleared up" my misunderstanding, I set out as follows;

    Setup attempt #1;
    Following the instructions outlined in the MTP AV manual very closely, I manually set up Box A as "1-8" and Box B as "9-16". Then I opened Mac OS X's "Audio/Midi Setup" (AMS). Sure enough, AMS saw a single 16 in/16 out interface where I could create & connect the synths (Outs 1-6), the 8 GS3s (Outs 9-16) and the Kybd (In 7). My AMS connections were;
    Interface Out 1 -> Synth 1 In ,
    Interface Out 2 -> Synth 2 in,
    Interface Out 3 -> Synth 3 in,
    Interface Out 4 -> Synth 4 in,
    Interface Out 5 -> Synth 5 in,
    Interface Out 6 -> Synth 6 in,
    Interface In 7 1 <- Kybd out,
    Interface Out 9 -> Giga 1 in,
    Interface Out 10 -> Giga 2 in,
    Interface Out 11 -> Giga 3 in,
    Interface Out 12 -> Giga 4 in,
    Interface Out 13 -> Giga 5 in,
    Interface Out 14 -> Giga 6 in,
    Interface Out 15 -> Giga 7 in,
    Interface Out 16 -> Giga 8 in,

    and my midi cable connections were;
    Box A Out 1 -> Synth 1 In ,
    Box A Out 2 -> Synth 2 in,
    Box A Out 3 -> Synth 3 in,
    Box A Out 4 -> Synth 4 in,
    Box A Out 5 -> Synth 5 in,
    Box A Out 6 -> Synth 6 in,
    Box A In 7 <- Kybd out,
    Box B Out 1 -> Box B In 1,
    Box B Out 2 -> Box B In 2
    Box B Out 3 -> Box B In 3
    Box B Out 4 -> Box B In 4,
    Box B Out 5 -> Box B In 5
    Box B Out 6 -> Box B In 6,
    Box B Out 7 -> Box B In 7
    Box B Out 8 -> Box B In 8


    With this setup, Box's A&B's lites indicated that "the Network" was actually working "as advertised". I did encounter a cabling problem that I rectified later (and will describe below). Sadly though, I could spend hours trying to explain why this configuration did not accomplish The Goal. It appears to be the fact that, even though GS3 can now "see" 8 ports, it can *only* "see" ports identified as "1-8". And, as I had setup Box B as 9-16, that may be why GS3 wasn't seeing any data at all at that point.
    Another potentially complicating factor was a MOTU tech note that states, *Networking only available under MacOS or Windows XP, however, Clockworks for Windows only supports editing the first device in a network." I was never able to get MOTU to explain exactly what "the first device in a network" means, but I assume it means that Clockworks on PC can only "see" a box with ID 1-8.


    Setup attempt #2;
    So I thought, what if I were to make Box B "1-8" and Box A "9-16"? I rebooted *everything* and manually set the boxes up as that. I went back to AMS and still had a 16/in, 16/out interface. I "disconnected" all devices ((note to Apple: disconnecting (select & delete) cables 1-8 worked fine, but disconnecting every cable from 9 to 16 caused AMS to crash and had to be rebooted)). Then I began to reconnect the cables in AMS. I would've thought that, having identified the Box's as described above, I would've connected the synths on Interface Outs 9-14, but - for some reason that didn't work. Even though I'd identified Box A as "9-16", I still had to AMS connect everything as in AMS Setup #1 to get data to go to the correct synths.
    And my midi cabling remained the same as before.

    and, Wah-LAH!!...sort of.

    Data was now passing from DPerf, out of the Mac, thru the network and showing up on the correct channels in GS3! The Goal!
    But I did notice that most of the times that I booted the interface rack, I was getting "a Christmas tree" of lites on Box B. I suspected either a bad midi cable or - because of the way I had Box B's Midi Outs connected to Box B's Midi In's, a midi feedback loop. I checked all the midi cables and they tested O.K. So, I set about tinkering with Clockworks and got no relief. Finally, i thought about actually "cross-wiring" the cables between Box's A & B and wound up with the following;
    Midi Cables;
    Box A Out 1 -> Box B 1 In ,
    Box A Out 2 -> Box B 2 in,
    Box A Out 3 -> Box B 3 in,
    Box A Out 4 -> Box B 4 in,
    Box A Out 5 -> Box B 5 in,
    Box A Out 6 -> Box B 6 in,
    Box A Out 7 -> Box B 7 in,
    Box A Out 8 -> Box B 8 in,
    Box B Out 1 -> Box A In 1,
    Box B Out 2 -> Box A In 2
    Box B Out 3 -> Box A In 3
    Box B Out 4 -> Box A In 4,
    Box B Out 5 -> Box A In 5
    Box B Out 6 -> Box A In 6,
    Kybd Out -> Box A In 7

    then I reconfigured AMS (Setup #3) as follows;
    Interface Out 1 -> Giga 1 in,
    Interface Out 2 -> Giga 2 in,
    Interface Out 3 -> Giga 3 in,
    Interface Out 4 -> Giga 4 in,
    Interface Out 5 -> Giga 5 in,
    Interface Out 6 -> Giga 6 in,
    Interface Out 7 -> Giga 7 in,
    Interface Out 8 -> Giga 8 in,
    Interface Out 9 -> Synth 1 In ,
    Interface Out 10 -> Synth 2 in,
    Interface Out 11 -> Synth 3 in,
    Interface Out 12 -> Synth 4 in,
    Interface Out 13 -> Synth 5 in,
    Interface Out 14 -> Synth 6 in,
    Kybd Out -> Interface 15 in


    And, faithful readers, it appears I now have *truly* accomplished "The Goal". No Christmas tree lites when I boot the MTP's, I can see all of my synths and all of my GS3 ports - 16 channels on everybody - in DPerf and can send data correctly to any of the 14 total destinations. Total "fiddlin' time? About 40+ hours. Far longer than it should've taken. And while there were a couple of MOTU tech guys that tried to assist, either I didn't accurately describe what I was trying to accomplish, or they didn't get it. And thanks to a couple of folks on Unicornation & elsewhere that also tried to assist. By the way, Shane got a reply from MOTU, saying that the above is undoable!


    bill myers. composer
    Last edited by williemyers; 12-29-2004 at 01:03 PM. Reason: mistyped
    Mac G5 DP 2.3, Os 10.4.11, 4 Gig RAM running DigiPerf 5.13, PTools LE 7.4, Sibelius 5, Finale 2008,
    P4 1.7 Gig, XP SP2, 2 Gig RAM,running GigaStudio 3.2,
    3 x 20" LCDs, 2 x MOTU MTP AVs, Digi 002r
    Kurz K2000r, Roland XV-3080, Emu Pro II, Kurz PC2r, Alesis DM-Pro, Kurz Midiboard

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