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Topic: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

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  1. #1

    Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    http://www.synful.com/

    Has anyone seen this??? You have to listen to the Beethoven String Quartet recording generated by this thing. Gary, could this type of technology be used with GPO someday???

    http://www.synful.com/Sounds/Synful_...en_Quartet.mp3

    The strings are incredible, the winds are good, the brass is not very convincing to me. Please let me know what you think.

  2. #2
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    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromit
    Has anyone seen this??? You have to listen to the Beethoven String Quartet recording generated by this thing. Gary, could this type of technology be used with GPO someday???
    Gromit,

    Yes I saw it and welcome this innovation. We will soon be announcing something just as groundbreaking soon.

    Here is a copy of a post I made on another thread about Synful:

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    This is good news. Eric has done groundbreaking work and his work should be supported. This opens up digital orchestration to a whole new realm. Physical modeling and Additive Synthesis are the future of digital orchestration. I do not view Synful as a competitor but as a partner in bringing digital orchestration to many musicians.

    In September of 2003 I posted that the goal was to "bring people into the digital orchestration fold - hobbyists, novices, the curious, pop artists, students, starving artists, etc. People who were once excluded who don''t have the budget for more expensive libraries will literally be players....As more people come into the fold, everybody will benefit." Eric's work furthers that goal and Eric is to be applauded for providing tools that benefit more musicians. The more colors in the artist's palette and the more tools and options, the better.

    Physical modeled instruments are not new. There is HarpTime, CelloFan and SmartFlute, but Eric's work takes it further. Physical modeling and Additive Synthesis solves many of the performance issues that are problematic in sampling. But there is still more to do as this technology is in its infancy.

    As Jkerr points, it is no secret that we have been working on physical modeling for the past several years. Quite different from what Eric is doing since it will be a hybrid of sampling and modeling, but another valuable tool in the palette. This is something we've been discussing on the GPO Forum. I believe that the ideal approach in the future may be a combination of technologies that are best suited for particular instruments,

    I welcome Eric to the Northern Sounds community and wish him much success. There are many people here who will offer great input as they have helped other developers. We are going to see a very interesting year ahead with new announcements, more orchestral libraries and the convergence of technologies.

    Gary Garritan

  3. #3

    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Gromit,
    Yes I saw it and welcome this innovation. We will soon be announcing something just as groundbreaking soon.
    What a breath of fresh air to have a business relationship with a businessman as impressively enlightened as Mr. G. A truly lovely post. How can an individual/business go wrong with just such an attitude? (I'll answer my semi-rhetorical question: they can't...not in the long run!)

    Regarding the synful site and demos...I'm an amateur composer with sub-par consumer level speakers, but what I heard can only be described as breathtaking. To be perfectly honest, my initial reaction was utter disbelief...I mean, I honestly thought it must have been a 'goof' or a con. (ie; the music had to be 'real world/real musician' based.) But with Gary's response, I guess it's for real...which means someone's doing something very right. And all computer musicians have a lot of wonderful things to look forward to.

    Regarding Mr. NeoTypic...in what way is the technology not what it claims to be? I'm not disagreeing...I don't know enough to intelligently disagree...just being honestly curious.

    Regarding Mr. G's soon to be announced innovation...you've got this consumer in your corner!

    Keep up the good work.

  4. #4
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    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by imagegod
    What a breath of fresh air to have a business relationship with a businessman as impressively enlightened as Mr. G. A truly lovely post. How can an individual/business go wrong with just such an attitude? (I'll answer my semi-rhetorical question: they can't...not in the long run!)

    Regarding the synful site and demos...I'm an amateur composer with sub-par consumer level speakers, but what I heard can only be described as breathtaking. To be perfectly honest, my initial reaction was utter disbelief...I mean, I honestly thought it must have been a 'goof' or a con. (ie; the music had to be 'real world/real musician' based.) But with Gary's response, I guess it's for real...which means someone's doing something very right. And all computer musicians have a lot of wonderful things to look forward to.

    Regarding Mr. NeoTypic...in what way is the technology not what it claims to be? I'm not disagreeing...I don't know enough to intelligently disagree...just being honestly curious.

    Regarding Mr. G's soon to be announced innovation...you've got this consumer in your corner!

    Keep up the good work.
    I was like you Image....totally knocked out by it....I've heard nothing that comes even close to their violin in fast passages (yet!) However the more I listen to it I realise that there is work to do still in other areas. I hope that Eric gets the support (time and investment) he needs to fully develop his ideas. I think he must have worked extremely hard to get as far as he has on his own.

    I'm also certain that Gary's new developments will also put the cat amongst the pigeons at this month's NAMM in the same way he did last year with GPO!

    Frank

  5. #5

    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    Hi everybody,

    I am using sample based systems since 1997. My first system was a Kurzweil 2500 with orchestral extension board. For the first few days using it, I was impressed by the results I could obtain with it, but only for the first few days….. Then, after some others no relevant experiences, in 1998 came AO. I was as enthusiastic as Hardy Heern is about Synful today. But soon the limits and disadvantages where discovered and became a handicap. After this came other always better libraries which do permit results we have never even dreamed about 10 years ago. BUT, still the fact that we use little pieces of a puzzle to put them together will, to a certain extent, probably always remain a limit in traditional sample libraries. I also own a Yamaha VL-70 since a few years, and always have thought that this would be maybe the way of the future. After listening to the demos of Synful and trying out the software for about one hour, and despite the fact that I am impressed by the quality of the demos, I do not think that I will use this software as it is right now. But I do think that the efforts of Eric, or others who make research in this domain, have to be supported, because there is definitely a great potential being in this direction.

    Iwan Roth
    http://www.iwanroth-sax.com

  6. #6
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    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    Regarding the Synful violin sound, for goodness sake let's separate the technology and sound from the cost!!

    The vast majority of folk who listened to the Synful demos were stunned by what they heard but had some reservations and said so....as you would with a new product. Most, including me, think the price is too high. What I found extraordinary is that a couple of individuals seemed to be hearing this breakthrough with different ears than the majority and they are regular posters at this forum.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but when that opinion (and I'm only talking sound at the moment) differs so greatly from the majority then you have to ask yourself what the reasons are. Is it physcological/physiological or are there other reasons?

    Let's give credit for an amazing achievement. There's one thing I respect more than loyalty and that's honesty!

    Eric Lindemann, of Synful, is an Engineer not a marketing bullsh***r and I think he must have worked incredibly hard to have done all that he has, including the website etc, probably largely by himself.

    I greatly admire the guy for his achievement as I have Gary for his. Devaluing the achievements of one does not automatically enhance the other!

    Frank

  7. #7
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    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by neoTypic
    Yeesh, am I not allowed to have a differing opinion without being mentally or psychologically challenged?

    Like I said before, the strings sound good in certain situations (i.e. fast passages), the rest I'm not impressed by.

    I'm very much done with this thread.
    No neo, I didn't even mention your name.....it's just that I find it hard to believe that you listen and compose music and are unable to hear what a breakthrough Eric has made. It would be a distortion of what I said, to suggest that I said you were mentally or psychologically challenged. I only suggested that there may be psychological or physiological reasons for you not hearing the instruments in the same way as the vast, and increasing majority.

    I meant it in the sense that people are different in the way they see things too. Haven't you been in a situation where someone says I think 'so and so' looks like someone else....and you can't see the resemblance.. It's a fact that peoples senses and brains are wired up differently. I'm not saying that you're deficient; only that you're different from the majority....that's not saying that you're worse or better for being different....just different.

    Let's disagree to agree!!! ...Life's too short.....especially mine!

    Frank

  8. #8

    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    Everyone comes to the altar with a different set of ears. For those that struggle to perform sample-based instruments with realism in that area between notes, then Synful led to epiphany.

    But in the case of neoTypic, he wanted to know if Synful could help with improving a composition like his beautiful Sanguine. NOPE. Synful would not help and would sound worse than dreadful.

    Different ears, different expectations. Different tools for different jobs.

    Now if only neoTypic would like to compose a piece with clarinet solo that had a continuous stream of notes in fast passages, and learned to retune the Synful Orchestra, then maybe he would be singing a different tune ...

    YBaCuO

  9. #9

    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    neoTypic:

    I've responded at the other thread, seeing as that's where it started. I'm copying it here, but perhaps the discussion should be continued at the other thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by neoTypic
    An annendum:

    I fully admit being a newbie when it comes to music, and I would love to be proven wrong because I truly do enjoy getting excited about new technology.

    Here is the MIDI file for Sanguine, and here is an MP3 using only GPO. The ONLY change to the midi file was to substitute volume data for mod data (since GPO uses mod for volume).

    I would love for someone to be able to get it to sound better than that using Synful.
    Hi neoTypic:

    I'm interested in your experience with Synful, because yes that file you have posted doesn't sound right. It sounds extremely thin and lifeless. I've played a few phrases from your piece with my copy of Synful and it doesn't sound the same. I can get it to sound SIMILAR, by adding NO vibrato (mod wheel), keeping things detatched, and not having the "delay for expression" enabled. But even then it doesn't sound the same. Do you have "harmonic tilt" set to zero? Your samples have a different tone (they sound thinner) and I'm wondering what the settings are.

    When I add modwheel to your first phrase, it adds more warmth and body, it starts to sound real. When I overlap the notes a little and ad "delay for expression" it sounds even more real.

    I wouldn't try to match GPO, however. I think on GPO at one point you brought in ensemble strings, and Synful can't do that. Whilst some of the Synful pathces should sound more realistic and expressive than GPO, GPO is an extroadinary value for money.

    To me, it sounds as if something is wrong and I think you should try to perhaps be sure Eric can get your demo file and respond to it.

  10. #10
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    Re: Must Hear --> Synful Orchestra

    You must listen to MCS's latest....this thing really is good.....but of course not as good as GPO nor as good value for money.....phew......a great add-on though...(when, of course, there is a Group Buy on it.....looking ahead now )

    www.mimesc.com/music/Andante-Synful.mp3

    Frank

    PS....and I actually don't like any solo instrument with piano backing....especially violin!!

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