• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Topic: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Unhappy Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    Dear all,

    Are there any Cubasis users out there that might be able to advise me or anybody who has experienced similar problems?

    (I have GPO, updated from the website, Fatar Studiologic Controller SL-880 and brand new PC - XP SP2, 1.5GbRam running Cubasis and GPO using an SB Audigy 2 Planitum S/Crd. I am using GPO as a VST Plug-in instrument)

    My problem is that my mod wheel data seems to be messed up when playing back from the sequencer. When i use the mod wheel live the volume control is smooth, and is fine during recording. In the sequencer track and list views i can see the data has been recorded smoothly. Yet when i play back the mod-wheel data (either recorded whilst playing or overdubbed) GPO seems to stutter every time there is mod wheel controller-data.

    I assumed at first that it was either a faulty mod wheel or a timing problem in the computer, so i upgraded to a new custom built machine with nearly twice the specification. I also made sure that my modwheel data wasnt being quantized by cubasis or altered in anyway. In live situations the mod wheel operates perfectly.

    If i really slow down my sequencer these strange sudden volume changes can really be heard and i can follow each one in the list edit mode. Iv tried disabling midi though and turning my controller key/bd off to rule out redundant mod wheel data from vibrations etc. but no luck

    The modulation wheel seems to have a life of its own in my kontact player. if i have the player keyboard up on screen whilst all the mod wheel 'fun' is going on, i can see the mod wheel suddenly shoot down to a low value quite randomly.

    Does anybody have any ideas or things i could try to resolve the problem?
    Is Cubasis the problem? I have tried two differnt version numbers of the sequencer to no luck

    I can provide recordings of the problem/screen shots etc if needs be.

    Many thanks!

    Ed

  2. #2

    Re: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    Hi Ed, here is what you should do to trouble shoot.
    1. turn off the midi track that is playing the notes and mod wheel data.
    2. start the sequence, and watch the mod wheel on the GPO keyboard.

    My guess is that it will be moving.

    There is another track that is assigned to the same midi channel somewhere, and it is conflicting with your mod wheel data that is in the track with the notes.

    If you have more than one midi track playing into the same midi channel, all the data will go to the GPO player and it will try it's best to produce what it is given.

    I think this is your problem.
    Let me know,

    DPDAN

  3. #3

    Re: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    Hi Ed, here is what you should do to trouble shoot.
    1. turn off the midi track that is playing the notes and mod wheel data.
    2. start the sequence, and watch the mod wheel on the GPO keyboard.

    My guess is that it will be moving.

    There is another track that is assigned to the same midi channel somewhere, and it is conflicting with your mod wheel data that is in the track with the notes.

    If you have more than one midi track playing into the same midi channel, all the data will go to the GPO player and it will try it's best to produce what it is given.

    I think this is your problem.
    Let me know,

    DPDAN
    Thanks for getting back so quickly!

    No luck with what you suggested im afraid. Even with only one track in the sequence it will still do it. I have however managed to recreate the effect and recorded it. i have also a midi file of my data that i'v used. Is there anyway i could get this to you for you to have a glance at sometime?

    Thanks again,

    Ed

  4. #4

    Re: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Rugman
    Thanks for getting back so quickly!

    No luck with what you suggested im afraid. Even with only one track in the sequence it will still do it. I have however managed to recreate the effect and recorded it. i have also a midi file of my data that i'v used. Is there anyway i could get this to you for you to have a glance at sometime?

    Thanks again,

    Ed
    There was a post about this problem (I think its the same one) about a year ago:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=20808

    Noone was able to solve it then, and it still happens sporadically to me now. I did some heavy diagnostics at the time, disconnecting all midi cables, disabling everything except for one channel, changing my midi interfaces to external ones and using 3 different soundcards. At the time, I concluded that the modulation wheel jumps were not present in the midi file at all and were being generated via some 'live' interaction between cubase and GPO/Kontakt player - are you suggesting they are, or have you managed to record the output from Cubase/is into another recorder/channel to capture a record of what is happening?

    All I do now is everytime I make a change, I save another version of the piece. eg mysongv001.all, mysongv002.all. If the problem occurs, I go back to the previous version and re-do the change. 9/10 times the problem does not re-cur. This might seem like hassle, but as a seasoned Cubase user, I know that at random Cubase will forget where WAV files are, what presets are loaded on my VSTi's, what device tracks should be assigned to, what my window layouts should be, it even sometimes forgets that Halion is a VSTi so won't let me change presets (amazing given that it comes from Steinberg too). So saving incremental file versions has saved me hours and hours of re-work.

  5. #5

    Re: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    Make sure that the midi track that is playing isn't also echoing your input keyboard. If it is, your keyboard's modwheel may be occasionally sending out values at or near its current setting.

    Modwheels are notorious for jumping back and forth between very close values. If your keyboard is sending out new modwheel messages every second or so to reflect these tiny jumps, they are likely to be very different values than what happens to be playing in the track at that time.

    If you suspect your modwheel might be of the "bumpy" sort, try this: Push the modwheel about halfway up, and record a track of music, without playing any notes. Let it run for a minute. Then examine the data (a "list view" is usually best). If you see occasional modwheel data, that is your problem, most likely.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  6. #6
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    West Seneca, NY
    Posts
    11,075

    Question Re: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    Hmmm, I wonder if it could be a mechanical quark as well? Fast and hard playing might jolt the mod wheel ever so slightly yet enough to cause the problem?
    Just a thought.
    Styxx

  7. #7

    Re: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    This is a known issue with Fatar equipment... Check this thread for more info.

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ighlight=fatar

  8. #8

    Re: Nightmare Mod Wheel Problems!

    I can't speak for others, but I can re-create the problem with all external devices disconnected which rules out mechanical causes for me! It is very much a playback problem, rather than anything that gets recorded (ie the mod curve can be quite smooth in the Midi file, but the mod wheel jumps to zero on the Kontakt Player sporadically when playing back that smooth curve). Here are some of the things I have noted:

    - The same file played back via another VSTi, or external instrument does not display the problem.
    - The problem tends to occur at more or less the same place in the file, but not EXACTLY the same place, so I have convinced myself there is nothing in the MIDI file itself that causes it.
    - Starting playback from a later point sometimes makes the problem occur slightly later.
    -Once the problem is in a particular channel/track, then it is there most of the time after that, but occasionally, the playback will be smooth, so if doing a 'mix' and the problem recurs, restarting several times over will often give one clean take
    - Sometimes, after a re-boot, the problem goes away and does not come back!

    At one time I was wondering whether midi-mod-wheel messages were being picked up by one Kontakt player midi channel from those stored on another midi channel. Next time I have the problem, I will take a closer look.

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •