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Topic: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

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  1. #1

    What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Howdy all!

    As a thought concerning the program Synful and the sample libraies we use, since many people have stated that Synful allows for more expression, easier real-time use of many different articulations, etc, why not encourage the sample developers (and/or sequencer develpoers) to use a program like Synful to map out the different articulations in real time and then have the computer figure out which real samples to use to emulate that performance?

    Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds?
    I remain solely responsible for the content of my messages, and agree to indemnify and hold harmless northern sound source, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of my message(s). Rock on.

  2. #2

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes37
    Howdy all!

    As a thought concerning the program Synful and the sample libraies we use, since many people have stated that Synful allows for more expression, easier real-time use of many different articulations, etc, why not encourage the sample developers (and/or sequencer develpoers) to use a program like Synful to map out the different articulations in real time and then have the computer figure out which real samples to use to emulate that performance?

    Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds?
    That's what I've been talking about! You'd have to use a notation program possibly- something to indicate to the software what your musical intentions are in term of dynamics and feel. I don't know if note and controller data would be enough. Or maybe you could choose from choices on a pulldown menu.

    Anyway, I'm sitting tight until after NAMM. I think there may be some things premiering there that will have a large bearing on this debate!!!

  3. #3

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    I agree...I mentioned in the original Synful thread, that if Synful was a "utility only" that could be used as plugin to control articulations of our current libs like Gold, without having to use the included Synful samples, that would be optimal. If there was a plugin like that I think it would sell like nothing else. Just imagine having the control of Synful and the articulations of EWQLSO!!!

    Liam

  4. #4
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    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes37
    What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?
    Soon...

  5. #5

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liam
    I agree...I mentioned in the original Synful thread, that if Synful was a "utility only" that could be used as plugin to control articulations of our current libs like Gold, without having to use the included Synful samples, that would be optimal. If there was a plugin like that I think it would sell like nothing else. Just imagine having the control of Synful and the articulations of EWQLSO!!!

    Liam
    Actually i think you are wrong, because synful uses coarticulation, which from memory is how two notes effect each other, eg the first note alters the beginning of the next note , its explained in the manual. So as i understand it if you used some smart program to map your current libraries you are still not taking into account coarticulation and the splicing of phrases, but i could be wrong thats my understanding

  6. #6

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    That would be part of the setp for the utility - if it's a normal sample library, the app has to know what's available and how itmaps into the musical concepts, if no suitable articulatio exists, you could just define an offset intot he sample with some sort of envelope process...

    Or not...
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  7. #7

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Soon...
    Oh you tease.

  8. #8

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Synful analyzes (via something like Fourier Analysis) actual samples of the note transitions - the actual continuous sound versus time as one note goes to the another.

    Except for the extremely limited VSL legato samples, and special effects like runs, trills, tremolo, etc., sample based instruments currently do not sample in this area. So it is missing and one can only cover it up or fake it with crude controllers.

    But the question with physical models is: How does one specify how to change the instrument controls as you go from one note to another? How hard will it be to learn these controls?

    Synful creates a database, so by specifying the two notes, corresponding overlap and their velocities, plus a few other simple controllers (like "pitch bend" for portamento control, and mod wheel for vibrato control), Synful then looks into the database to find the correct analyzed sample sets and morphs appropriately between them to generate the note transition data as well as the next note. While this may not give as much control as an actual instrument or its physical model, this approach is something that I would want: just specify the notes, "select" the appropriate effect (usually just by velocity and note overlap) and Synful does the rest. Is this artificially watering down the instrument? Or making it more powerful? Only time will tell. But for ME, I do not have the time to learn how to play every orchestral instrument in every style. I definitely prefer the "computer-assisted" but human controlled (ASSISTED NOT AUTOMATIC) performance model.

    How easy will physical model instruments be to perform?
    How much better can Synful technology sound (to overcome its current digital harshness)?

    Very interesting times ahead.

    YBaCuO

  9. #9

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Soon...
    Yowza! Will we find out at NAMM?
    I remain solely responsible for the content of my messages, and agree to indemnify and hold harmless northern sound source, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of my message(s). Rock on.

  10. #10

    Re: What about Samples AND Physical Modeling?

    Dang. I wish I could make it to LA. Well, I can wait a few days if I must...
    Dan Powers
    www.danielpowers.info

    "It's easier to be a composer than it is to compose."
    --Ray Luke (1928-2010)

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