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Topic: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

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  1. #1

    Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    Hello !!!!


    Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up ? (for sampled piano)
    Gigastudio 3 ?
    Kontakt 2 ?

    examples with A :
    With A5 is down (played) :

    if [keys(A1 or A2 or A3 or A4 or D2 or D3 or D4) are down] and [keys A5 is down] then play the
    A5 harmonics samples

    With A4 is down (played) :

    if [keys(A1 or A2 or A3 or D2 or D3 ) are down] and [keys A4 is down] then play the
    A5 harmonics samples

    With A3 is down (played) :

    if [keys(A1 or A2 or D2 ) are down] and [keys A3 is down] then play the
    A5 harmonics samples

    With A2 is down (played) :

    if [keys(A1 ) are down] and [keys A2 is down] then play the
    A5 harmonics samples


    you can do this with x and n variables

  2. #2

    Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    What is n?
    What is x?
    I guess it's a octave number, but could you explain a bit more on an example.

    I noticed that too when i press, for example, G2 key but without playing it (i.e. just to leave the damper), and when I play staccato the G4, it happens that the G4 harmonic of the G2 is resonating.
    This works also when I hit B3 and D4 and other various keys of some different octaves.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    You could probably do this in GigaStudio, with some collaboration to get an iMIDI rule written to do the selection.

    It would be a bit of labor to impulse all those resonances, and at this point, it would probably take about 40 computers to run the model you propose, but I see where you're going with it.

    In practical terms, I think this is where the physical modeling technology might better take over. The impulse technology is good for ranges, but this would be a keypress-sensitive combination of resonances. A chord like C3, A3, Bb3, D4, F#4 would require several key-centers represented, particularly based upon your observation that the third-partial is so prevalent.

    But then again, if you're pushing the signal through a resonance model of the ENTIRE harp, you're still only exciting the string resonances that have a harmonic relationship. So even though you're pushing through a "chromatic" impulse, the tone you're using to excite the impulse will determine which of those chromatic resonances will have impact on the sound. I have an open piano harp in my living room (torn out of an upright piano, with soundboard). If I walk over to it and sing an "A" I only hear resonances related to "A" up its overtone series. I don't hear overtones related to "F" because I'm exciting only a small few of them by coincidence.

    So, instead of individualizing the resonances, this might be more efficiently modeled by studying the relative dynamic of the acoustic components, then programming amplitudes to reflect this--knowing that the frequency components which go "un-excited" will simply disappear underneath the overall sound and be unnoticable. Even though it is not a "true" model in the sense you are describing, it is probably behaviorally similar enough to make very little difference in the end analysis.

    In that case, it's just more a matter of creating a realistic damping mechanism for the overall pedal up resonance model, so that it doesn't always ring over. But there again, there is always SOME ring-through, so it may also be a matter of judicious amplitude design.

  4. #4

    Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    Hi,



    I've found a easier model. Only with 8' and 5'. i have to sample only 88 new samples (harmonics). Each 88 samples will be played by 8 conditions (using conditional operand "or" and "and" and "xor") (using the group starts in Kontakt and conditional keys)

    it's not the real thing but it will improve any sampled piano.

    mp3 demos soon.

    Regards,

    Olivier

  5. #5

    Thumbs up Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    I'm looking forward to see what you come up with Olivier. To me, sympathetic resonance is one of the biggest things the current sampled pianos are missing (except for the Ivory?). It has the potential to breathe more life in the current libraries as, the soundboard resonance, it is something that is almost always present in a real piano, even when striking just two keys without sustain. I have heard it done on a Roland digital grand but that comes of a cost of over $10,000 I believe....

  6. #6

    Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    Hi Bruce,

    No way to do this in Kontakt (with "or" and "and" cond. operator for keys down). I will try in Gigastudio.

    thanks for your help !



    Olivier

  7. #7

    Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    Hello !!!!


    do i have do to this in a seperate midi program assigned to a sampler ?

    can a programmer help me to apply my idea ?

    Regards,

    Olivier

  8. #8

    Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    Hi,

    I have another idea, by using a convolution as Bruce suggested it.
    So, we could add a special layer with the conditions and/or above, that will allow the samples to sound (or not) thru an extra convolution (something like PSP Pianoverb), and keep only the wet FX to readd it to the full piano sound.

    I don't know if it's possible, but I will think to it.

  9. #9

    Smile Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    This is all wayyyyyy above my head, but I do know that Cameleon is an additive synth that creates patches by modifying harmonics. So, maybe it would be relevant. (Feel free to ignore this post).

    jeffn1
    For original progressive electronic rock influenced by J.S. Bach and (old) Rush, check out: www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness.

  10. #10

    Re: Can a sampler program this harmonics samples up

    Olivier, VSampler3 has extended zone settings that support a "keyboard range" selector -- play zone if key being pressed is in range X to Y. It also has "key start" selection, which is your typical keyswitch function. Now, zone conditions is limited to 6 per zone, so the mapping solution for one particular harmonic would have to be divided up. For example, your first case (A1 or A2 or A3 or A4 or E2 or E3 or E4 or E5) would be divided into one zone handling (A1 or A2 or A3 or A4) and another zone handling (E2 or E3 or E4 or E5).

    I'd be happy to mock something up for you, but the result would be a VS3 patch. You could grab the demo yourself to play with the result. Really, once you have the patch in hand you can take over the programming/tweaking yourself, since VS3 functionality is similar in functionality and features to many other samplers out there -- key zones, velocity zones, mod mappings, etc.

    Ultimately I think you want a standalone solution, but if you're prototyping you kinda want more flexibility than going back to a developer to try something new. Just a thought.

    Let me know if you're interested.

    - Keith

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