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Topic: Gap in my Knowledge

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  1. #1
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Gap in my Knowledge

    Well, it is time to expose myself for the ignoramus that I am regarding some terms that appear to be curent. Would somebody enlighten me on the specific of Loop Based Composing, remixing, and maybe some other modern terms that have eluded me.

    Richard

  2. #2

    Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by rwayland
    Well, it is time to expose myself for the ignoramus that I am regarding some terms that appear to be curent. Would somebody enlighten me on the specific of Loop Based Composing, remixing, and maybe some other modern terms that have eluded me.

    Richard
    Don't waste your time unless you're thinkin' of changin' your name to DJ DanceMaster Wayland. !
    ~Rudy
    helmproductions.com
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  3. #3

    Smile Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by rwayland
    Well, it is time to expose myself for the ignoramus that I am regarding some terms that appear to be curent. Would somebody enlighten me on the specific of Loop Based Composing, remixing, and maybe some other modern terms that have eluded me.

    Richard
    Richard,

    As far as I know Loop based composing can be the use of prefabricated loops ( mostly patterns of one, two or four bars) which are repeated over and over. Or also self made loops (in Logic just write two bars and turn loop ON). Great for Dance or even minimal music.....

    About Remixing, hmm I have to admit I am not really sure, maybe some other member can enlighten us both :-)

    I am like you, I do not use those things, but I like to know what this is all about.

    iwan

  4. #4

    Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    Loop-Based Composing - that's a pretty broad topic.

    The original 'Loopers' were practitioners of "musique concrete" such as Pierre Schafer, starting in the late 19040's ...using tape recordings of found sounds (samples, essentially - things like machinery, nature sounds, breaking glass, voices...), manipulated and combined in various ways, including literally looping the tape by cutting a section and splicing it head-to tail. Long loops could be run through the tape machine transport and then out around microphone stands...crossfades were accomplished by cutting and splicing the tape on an angle - the shallower the angle, the longer the crossfade (it's interesting to look at the graphic representation of fades in most DAWs and notice the similarity to physical tape edits).

    When mass-market digital sampling came along in the 80's, producers of many musical styles but particularly in Hip-Hop and various dance genres figured out that you could sample a rhythmic element like a drum beat and make it repeat in perfect time (Loop) to create a groove that combined the human inflections of the original performance with the hypnotic repetition of a drum machine. It was particularly popular to sample the syncopated drum breaks from funk and soul records, to create a "breakbeat". The advent of Propellerheads' ReCycle software made it easy to chop a loop up into its individual hits and rearrange the original loop or impose a different tempo or feel on it. This technique is the basis of genres such as Drum n' Bass.

    Another application of looping is the creation of layered atmospheric textures, such as the work of guitarist David Torn, or producer Brian Eno. Long digital or tape delays can be used in a similar fashion to the tape loops of the musique concrete crowd, but in real-time, overdubbing and manipulating sounds on the fly.

    With modern hard disk recording and virtual samplers, and a broad range of tools for manipulating audio, there are many ways to take almost any imaginable audio source and by chopping/stretching/otherwise mangling it, turn it into an interesting looped sound, which might be used as a rhythmic/harmonic/melodic/textural/SFX element in your composition.

    this just scratches the surface....

    Brian

  5. #5

    Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    Richard -

    If you're ever interested in going the "loop recording" route, check out SONY's ACID 5 programs. I hear very good things about this program by people who use it all of the time.

    Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather input my midi sequenced arrangement one note at a time. For good or for bad, I do this even with my sequenced drum parts. Never got into "loop recording", probably never will. It is another tool, though, for the composer/musician. Check out SONY's website and check out its ACID program.

    Here's the web site:

    www.sony.com/mediasoftware

    Click on it products link and away you go!

    By the way, these particular set of SONY products used to be owned by a company called Sonic Foundry. They're really great products. I am particularly happy with their Vegas 5 program which does EXCELLENT digital video editing (and audio recording/editing as well, of course).

    Ted

    P.S. By the way, I've enjoyed listening to the music that you share here.
    Music and humor are healthy for the soul.

  6. #6

    Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    I use loops for drums a lot of the time now. They are pieces of real drumset recordings, and if you've got enough of them to choose from, a convincing drum part can be made from them. I recommend Beta Monkey drum loops. In addition to the Acid programs, Sonar is also excellent with using loops, and I've even made some of my own loops with Sonar using drum recordings I've done in studios.

    And yeah, there are loops for all kinds of things, not just drums, but that is primarily my need for them.
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

  7. #7

    Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazbot
    <edit>...

    And yeah, there are loops for all kinds of things, not just drums, but that is primarily my need for them.
    In the "old days" of game audio, we absolutely had to do looping. The PCs and game console machines never had more than a few kb of space for 45 minutes of music and audio, so here we go looped-dee-loo! A great space saving measure. Audio programmers had to re-invent a subset of the MIDI spec...something that would take up less ROM. My theory is, people got so used to hearing (game) music being played in looped fashion that it eventually became an acquired taste...a subculture of its own. Thereafter the looping practice became a commercial artform in and of itself.
    (Jus' call me professor Nabbot!)
    ~Rudy
    helmproductions.com
    =====================
    Rock-a-doodle-doooo!!

  8. #8
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by efiebke
    Richard -

    If you're ever interested in going the "loop recording" route, check out SONY's ACID 5 programs. I hear very good things about this program by people who use it all of the time.

    Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather input my midi sequenced arrangement one note at a time. For good or for bad, I do this even with my sequenced drum parts. Never got into "loop recording", probably never will. It is another tool, though, for the composer/musician. Check out SONY's website and check out its ACID program.

    Here's the web site:

    www.sony.com/mediasoftware

    Click on it products link and away you go!

    By the way, these particular set of SONY products used to be owned by a company called Sonic Foundry. They're really great products. I am particularly happy with their Vegas 5 program which does EXCELLENT digital video editing (and audio recording/editing as well, of course).

    Ted

    P.S. By the way, I've enjoyed listening to the music that you share here.

    Well, thanks, Ted and all you others. I don't plan on using the technique, just wanted to know what it was all about.

    Ted, I have more music to post, but I have so much that I have to decide first which one. I have a few hundred of my own compositions, haven't counted lately. But currently, I am still experiementing with the GPO X-custom Steinway. I justs finished the Percy Grainger arrangement of the Tchaikowsky Piano Conerto, and am looking for a way to put up the demo. I can't do it on my Sibelius page, because it is not my composition. It is a very good demo of GPO and Sonar. (Possible bias here?)

    I also have a real foot stomper version of Turkey in the Straw, incorporating two arrangements plus my own mucking around. Some day I will find a way to post it, too. It is not yet GPO, but that won't take long at all. I really like this one. My mother played it for me, and I played it for my kids - not this arrangement, my own improvised version.

    Richard

  9. #9

    Re: Gap in my Knowledge

    The big trick with modern loop based software is that it can, to a decent degree, pitchshift and timeshift without a whole lot of degredation. So, you take yuor little four bar bass line, say, paste it about 16 times like you would a phrase in a word processor then take the second bar and bump it up a 5th, and the next couple bars down a minor 3rd and it all works at the same tempo. It's point-and-click composing, using pre-existing sonic chunks. And you can sync the whole thing up with your sequencer or audio workstation. For music that's all about repetetive "groove" it works fine.

    Remixing is also a broad term. It goes from the literal old-school meaning of "take someone's tracks and do a re-mix" to "take bits of someone's track, sample it, add completely new beats and instruments and render it unrecognizable". Dj's and remix artists will take someone's track and make it sound totally different, generally with an emphasis on heavy beats and danceablilty.

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