• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Topic: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    Hi Gary and Tom, Just wondering if micro tunning can or will be included on the new jazz library? I'd love to emulate Don Ellis' Quarter Valve Holton Trp...not that I have the chops to sound like him, but it would be nice none the less. Also, since many of these instruments are wind intruments, will we be able to assign breath control to them and actually "play" them in real time like I do with my Yamaha VL? Also, can we route aftertouch to vibrato (Pitch LFO) both amount and speed. How about real time activation of Portamento on lead Trps to get that wonderful "Maynard" sound doing lip trills and glissing into that lead Trp stratosphere... Thanks for any answers! Take Care!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NW Illinois
    Posts
    1,175

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    jcn7,

    I don't have an answer about quarter-tones, but it's good to know that other people remember Don Ellis too.

    For what it's worth, I've just begun collaborating on an Ellis project with Nick DiScala. Nick works closely with the Ellis estate and is instrumental in getting many of the Ellis albums released on CD. I learned from Nick that one of Ellis' last major works was a piece written for symphony orchestra in three movements. It was performed only once. The only recording of this piece was made during that performance, and it's not very good. Because of those facts this piece has never been performed again.

    Nick has assumed the task of inputting this work into Finale, getting a clean score and parts. He has given me his files and I am using GPO to bring this piece back to life. I have a feeling I'm going to be needing the GPO advanced collection to accurately render this piece. After I've finished, the estate will use this recording to try and obtain future performances of this missing work. This is truly a labor of love for me.

    Jeff

    (By the way: TEARS OF JOY & CONNECTION have just been released on CD)

  3. #3

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    Hi Jeff! Wow that really interests me a great deal! Please let us all know when that GPO version of Ellis' work is ready. I noticed on an "Ellis" web site that someone was going to do a documentary, but that was some time ago, and last time I checked nothing seemed to come of it. Also, saw your last note about Tears of Joy and Connection out on CD...I'll plan on picking those 2 up, but I'd really like to see Live at filmore on CD! Anyway, thanks again!

  4. #4

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    You know, just had a thought- the tuning really would probably be more of an issue for the sequncer/control program. The sound module just plays whatever pitch it is told to. I have never checked to see if Sonar supports microtuning but I bet it does.

    But anyway it occured to me you have an easy worst-case-scenario alternative for quarter tones. Just put the same instrument on two channels. Tune the second up (or down) a quarter tone. Then use it to fill in the notes between the intervals of the first one. More channels, closer intervals. You just wouldn't have real time control.

    But I bet you can get the job done from your sequencer.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Orcas Island
    Posts
    11,454

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?




    We'll see what we can do to provide the tools to make microtuning possible.

    Gary Garritan

  6. #6

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredProgGH
    The sound module just plays whatever pitch it is told to.
    Unfortunately, the sound module (more precisely) plays whatever MIDI Note it is told to. Most sequencers (including Sonar) know nothing about alternate tuning systems, so it's up to your brain to do the translation when you're laying down notes in the piano-roll or actually playing on a keyboard.

    That being said, it's up to the sound module to know that MIDI Note #36 is a "C1" or not. It has the prerogative to map it to whatever frequency it would like.

    But anyway it occured to me you have an easy worst-case-scenario alternative for quarter tones. Just put the same instrument on two channels. Tune the second up (or down) a quarter tone. Then use it to fill in the notes between the intervals of the first one. More channels, closer intervals. You just wouldn't have real time control.
    You know, I'd never thought of doing it like that, but you're absolutely right! Mind you, your piano-roll and playing it live on a keyboard would still require your brain to do the mapping. And this would only allow for mathematically regular microtuning like quarter-tones, and not funky scales like Balinese pelog or whatnot...

    Though I suppose with enough detunes sets on separate channels, why not? In fact, I could write an MFX plugin to do the mapping automatically, including the live keyboard input. (Why, oh why, do I always volunteer *more* work for myself?)

    Of course there's a hitch in doing this: many sound modules (including GPO) only allow you to transpose by semitones (coarse tuning), rather than any number of cents of fine tuning. One could probably get around that by touching the Pitch Wheel just a smidge up.

    Oh heck, why don't we all just wait and see if Kontakt 2 does this for us automatically?

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  7. #7

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    Huh, I always just assumed Sonar could handle alternate tunings but, not using them, I never looked. And I also never noticed that GPO doesn't fine tune. (Are you *sure* about that?? I could swear it did...) Arrrggh!

    But yeah, you could use a wheel message as a workaround if there was just no other way.

  8. #8

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredProgGH
    Huh, I always just assumed Sonar could handle alternate tunings but, not using them, I never looked. And I also never noticed that GPO doesn't fine tune. (Are you *sure* about that?? I could swear it did...) Arrrggh!

    But yeah, you could use a wheel message as a workaround if there was just no other way.
    GPO positively does not fine tune! , which gave me quite a hard time, where GPO sounded like an amateur orchestra...

    I have more or less successfully worked around it with pitch wheel messages here and there....

  9. #9

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    Was thinking a bit more about this. Which would be more useful?

    1) Viewing a piano-roll where 12 lines still equal one octave, but entering the same note on a second channel plays a quarter-tone up, such that the pitch value is immediately obvious.

    2) Viewing a piano-roll where 24 lines is equal to one octave, such that all notes are entered on the same channel, making the relationship of intervals are more directly obvious.

    I can see advantages on both sides (particularly #2, where you could play quartertone scales on the keyboard live), but figured I'd ask about the perspective of others before trying to make this happen.

    I suppose much of it is up to how you're applying this: if you just want a soloist to be able to go microtonal, then #1 is probably the right choice, whereas if you're getting heavy into alternate scaling for the entire ensemble then #2 might be better.

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NW Illinois
    Posts
    1,175

    Re: Any chance of micro tunning in Big band?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markleford
    1) Viewing a piano-roll where 12 lines still equal one octave, but entering the same note on a second channel plays a quarter-tone up, such that the pitch value is immediately obvious.
    #1 makes more sense to me. For me, If I saw a piano roll with 24 notes to the octave my frame of reference would be completely off. I'd prefer to keep a 12 note octave, and have a second layer for the notes that are in the cracks.

    As far as playing live with the #2 setup, that would really be weird. With a 24 note octave mapped on a keyboard, to play a C major triad, you'd play: C - Ab - D.

    Jeff

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •