• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Topic: Bad Trend IMHO

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Bad Trend IMHO

    To Gary Garritan and other sample developers:

    While I think there are some great new libraries coming out I personally am very leary of buying any expensive ones that are tied to one sample playback device like Kompakt. As new OSX and Windows XP versions come out there is simply no guarantee that a company like N.I. will survive financially through them and therefore be able to continue to update them. Also, frankly, N.I. products have earned a well deserved reputation of not always playing nice with the other children, so to speak.

    When I buy samples I want to know that if I need to change my sampler I will still be able to use my expensive sample libraries by conversion to GIga, EXS24, Halion, Mach 5, Kontakt 2, whatever. The audio software world is very fluid and I think this trend is bad.

    Just my opinion.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  2. #2

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    have you tried V Sampler?

  3. #3

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    I agree for the most part. But I've also been reading the Garritan forum for a while and doubt Gary would leave any of us "out in the cold" should NI ever go belly up. I believe he would unlock the samples and allow them to be used in Kontakt (which they already can be as long as you have GPO installed and registered).

    Also, just because they are tied to a sample engine you still have all the samples as audio data and all the programming is there. If NI or any other sample engine company were to go broke, there would be a translation program that should unlock these. (and there are always cracks if worse comes to worse, you could crack the player and take the samples to the updated engine of your choice).

    I wouldn't worry about it; neither does it make a difference in my purchasing decisions. I have never had any problems with the different players and will be pre-ordering Project SAM's True Strike VI next week so I will see how the HALion player works, but I'm not expecting any problems.
    Lincoln Flesch
    Diva, GPO, GOS, LastLibs Bass, Scarbee's SID, BFD, Post Emperor and the MAG.
    ---------------------------------------
    "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    --Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

  4. #4

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashermusic
    To Gary Garritan and other sample developers:

    While I think there are some great new libraries coming out I personally am very leary of buying any expensive ones that are tied to one sample playback device like Kompakt. As new OSX and Windows XP versions come out there is simply no guarantee that a company like N.I. will survive financially through them and therefore be able to continue to update them. Also, frankly, N.I. products have earned a well deserved reputation of not always playing nice with the other children, so to speak.

    When I buy samples I want to know that if I need to change my sampler I will still be able to use my expensive sample libraries by conversion to GIga, EXS24, Halion, Mach 5, Kontakt 2, whatever. The audio software world is very fluid and I think this trend is bad.

    Just my opinion.
    Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've used NI on several different computers and never had a bit of trouble.

    I love NI's products. And I'm seriously not concerned about them going out of business. But if they do, we'll all survive. A lot of companies go out of business and, years later, people are still using their products. Besides, the sample business is moving so rapidly, most of us will want to buy the next best thing anyway...
    --
    Robert Gregory Browne
    KISS HER GOODBYE (now available)
    KILLER YEAR: Stories to Die For (Jan. 2008)
    WHISPER IN THE DARK (2008)
    St. Martin's Press
    http://www.robertgregorybrowne.com

  5. #5

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by Link F.
    I agree for the most part. But I've also been reading the Garritan forum for a while and doubt Gary would leave any of us "out in the cold" should NI ever go belly up. I believe he would unlock the samples and allow them to be used in Kontakt (which they already can be as long as you have GPO installed and registered).

    Also, just because they are tied to a sample engine you still have all the samples as audio data and all the programming is there. If NI or any other sample engine company were to go broke, there would be a translation program that should unlock these. (and there are always cracks if worse comes to worse, you could crack the player and take the samples to the updated engine of your choice).

    I wouldn't worry about it; neither does it make a difference in my purchasing decisions. I have never had any problems with the different players and will be pre-ordering Project SAM's True Strike VI next week so I will see how the HALion player works, but I'm not expecting any problems.
    Remapping smaples in different samplers is a big PITA.

    You are all making valid points here but at the end of the day if I am given a choice between product A which works in several sampler formats and produtc B which is tied to a particular one I am going to buy product A. And I would still encourage Gary and the other developers not to hitch their wagon to any particular star of the moment, like N.I.'s Kompakt.

    Just my opinion.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  6. #6
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Orcas Island
    Posts
    11,454

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashermusic
    To Gary Garritan and other sample developers:

    While I think there are some great new libraries coming out I personally am very leary of buying any expensive ones that are tied to one sample playback device like Kompakt. As new OSX and Windows XP versions come out there is simply no guarantee that a company like N.I. will survive financially through them and therefore be able to continue to update them. Also, frankly, N.I. products have earned a well deserved reputation of not always playing nice with the other children, so to speak.

    When I buy samples I want to know that if I need to change my sampler I will still be able to use my expensive sample libraries by conversion to GIga, EXS24, Halion, Mach 5, Kontakt 2, whatever. The audio software world is very fluid and I think this trend is bad.

    Just my opinion.
    When we developed GPO we considered various samplers and players. We chose the Native Instruments Player because it had the features needed. Copy protection was not the major factor in our decision but the ability to perform certain functions was paramount.

    When GOS for GigaSampler was first released, I received the same types of concerns. People wanted to use the GOS samples in their AKAI, Rolands and EMU keyboards. Some could not understand why we could not make a 700MB patch work in a 32MB sampler. These hardware samplers could not adapt to the new paradigm and didn't have the features necessary to play GOS.

    We simply could not have pulled off GPO in any other sampler. Legato mode, automatic variability, the expression controls and various other features which make GPO unique could not have been done in some of the other samplers. We would have had to increase the sample pool and perhaps develop another program like MaestroTools. With the Kontakt Player we were able to make a small-footprint library do so many things that were not possible with other samplers.

    The Kontakt Player enabled us to get the sounds of an orchestra into the hands of many more musicians - "an orchestra on every desktop". The NI Player works on Mac and PC (some samplers only PC), it works as standalone and as a VSTi, DXi, AU and RTAS plugin. So it does play nicely with other children - more so than proprietary samplers.

    As to whether N.I. will survive financially, from what I understand their sales of Kontakt are outselling other samplers. I have worked with this company and know the people and I don't think there is anything to worry about in this regard. Take a look at Kontakt2 and you'll see the commitment that Native Instruments has shown to their product line.

    The industry is changing so fast and now there are more possibilities than existed a year ago. There are things on the horizon that will bring radical changes to the sampling industry. The trend is looking good.

    Gary Garritan

  7. #7

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    When we developed GPO we considered various samplers and players. We chose the Native Instruments Player because it had the features needed. Copy protection was not the major factor in our decision but the ability to perform certain functions was paramount.

    When GOS for GigaSampler was first released, I received the same types of concerns. People wanted to use the GOS samples in their AKAI, Rolands and EMU keyboards. Some could not understand why we could not make a 700MB patch work in a 32MB sampler. These hardware samplers could not adapt to the new paradigm and didn't have the features necessary to play GOS.

    We simply could not have pulled off GPO in any other sampler. Legato mode, automatic variability, the expression controls and various other features which make GPO unique could not have been done in some of the other samplers. We would have had to increase the sample pool and perhaps develop another program like MaestroTools. With the Kontakt Player we were able to make a small-footprint library do so many things that were not possible with other samplers.

    The Kontakt Player enabled us to get the sounds of an orchestra into the hands of many more musicians - "an orchestra on every desktop". The NI Player works on Mac and PC (some samplers only PC), it works as standalone and as a VSTi, DXi, AU and RTAS plugin. So it does play nicely with other children - more so than proprietary samplers.

    As to whether N.I. will survive financially, from what I understand their sales of Kontakt are outselling other samplers. I have worked with this company and know the people and I don't think there is anything to worry about in this regard. Take a look at Kontakt2 and you'll see the commitment that Native Instruments has shown to their product line.

    The industry is changing so fast and now there are more possibilities than existed a year ago. There are things on the horizon that will bring radical changes to the sampling industry. The trend is looking good.

    Gary Garritan
    Gary, I am not talking hardware samplers but other soft samplers. My point is had you done this in Giga format as you have done other libraries, it could be converted with Translator or some of the other translation programs to EXS24, which I use, Halion, Mach 5, Kontakt, Kompakt etc. instead of being married to Kompakt. Gary, respectfully, and I have great respect for you, the blogs are full of people like myself, mostly Mac, whose stability has decreased markedly whenever they use N.I. virtual instruments. I am not trying to knock N.I. here as my argument is for options. Also, it is one thing to be married to a single sampler for a $300 library, quite another for those that are $900 and up.

    All I can tell you is that the lack of choices of soft samplers is costing you my purchase of your Gold Pro library. But hey, hopefully for you others will not share my concerns.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  8. #8

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    Gold is an East West product, not a Garritan product.

    I don't think you have anything to fear, you still have the samples and can use them in a soft sampler, I use GPO in Kontakt everyday. Its just this allows GPO to be used by people who may not own a soft sampler, like your average college student for example.
    Lincoln Flesch
    Diva, GPO, GOS, LastLibs Bass, Scarbee's SID, BFD, Post Emperor and the MAG.
    ---------------------------------------
    "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    --Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

  9. #9

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    The controllability of GPO right out of the box is priceless. I think that Gary said, that this kind of power wasn't possible/affordable in other engines. He's makin' sense to me. I'm tired of building my own sample banks. Its a tweaker's delight, perhaps, but nowadays I just want something right out of the box that sounds great and doesn't put me in the poor house -- and most of all, leaves me some time to actually make music.
    ~Rudy
    helmproductions.com
    =====================
    Rock-a-doodle-doooo!!

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona
    Posts
    4,045

    Re: Bad Trend IMHO

    Well you won't have to worry about hurting Gary's feelings by not purchasing his Gold Pro as that product is put out by a competitor!

    As Gary mentioned, the programming of his libraries is heavily programmed for the Kontakt engine. There is no translation software that could convert this deep programming to the other engines. Only fresh programming would work. Since the Kontakt player is available to all users, there is only a small minority of users who wouldn't be able to use the samples with the current player. It would not be profitable to program for the other soft samplers for this reason.

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •