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Topic: Music, noise, noise, music?

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Angry Music, noise, noise, music?

    When does music become noise and noise become music? Take your mind off of the controversy of the day and listen to the noise. Does it become music or just remain what it is, noise? How about music, does it ever become noise or does it remain music? What about virtual controversy? When does the noise end and the music start?
    Why am I hearing so much noise lately? Where is the music?
    Styxx

  2. #2

    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    An interesting topic for conversation! It is my belief that music is in the ear of the beholder, though I'm sure many would probably agree that music is composed (get it? "composed"? I'm so clever) of several distinct features, such as harmony and melody. As I've stated in the chat room before (see you tomorrow?), music is science. Psychology, to be exact, and, since scientists do not have a complete understanding of how the brain works, music is still not an exact science. But it is a form of perception. Only you can distinguish between music and noise.

    Scientists have, however, linked music with language. Certain people who have had strokes and damage the part of the brain that deals with language can injure their perception of music. Mozart's most beautiful symphonies can sound like random notes to these people, like someone banging on a piano. Music perception is an scientific ongoing research field (there are several journals about it at my university's library). What we can be sure of is that music perception is not only different for everyone, but also changes in everyone. For example, if you listen to a complicated piece of music for the first time, it may not bring you much joy or emotion, but upon multiple listens your brain begins to pull out little pleasurable motifs, perhaps, and melodic expectations, which can change the way you percieve the piece. This explains why you may be born with a love for tonal music, but end up loving atonal music by the time your 60. It's all science! And it's all relative to the listener.

    Unless it's rap music, that's just noise.
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  3. #3
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    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    I have no idea what you are talking about. I guess it comes down to what you are listening to. And your frame of mind. I can sometimes listen to the street noise and hear music and sometimes I listen to the radio and hear noise (yes I have have it tuned to channel ).

    I spent a good part of the day (1-27-05) in Symphony Hall in Boston and heard some great music. Stuck in traffic on the way there (3 hours!) and the way back (almost 2 hours!) (usually an hour, hour and half tops, door to door) I listen to some great CDs - Hindermith, Bartok and Mozart (happy birthday). No noise there. At home I listened to a few more GPO demos and didn't find much noise. I worked for a while improving my latest piece and posted a new version (but didn't "bump" it today) - ah, maybe that's where you heard the noise
    Last edited by trentpmcd; 01-28-2005 at 07:02 AM. Reason: clearify
    Trent P. McDonald

  4. #4
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    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    Might I suggest that the reduction of some musical forms to what some may call noise -- does not remove it from the realms of being true music. Witness the Gamalon: intricate, deep, rythmical and often cacaphonous to the western ear.

    Witness elevator music -- and imagine it playing in a Balinese hotel. (Thought Styxx would groove on that thought.)

    Industrially based rap poetry (I cannot call it music) is in vogue for both message, and inexpensiveness of production for the masses....and the ease with which the masses can emulate the vocal patterns. Sure is not equal to the melodic quality of the pre-WWII "Mares Eat Oats"...but in sales/audience , probably on an equal intellectual scale when the disparate eras are compared.

    In the USA today where a 40 hour work week often turns into a 60 hour work week in middle management -- time is not available to enjoy longer forms of music. I was raised on Opera -- and Montavani was considered pop music in our home. I preferred Basie's stuff to Elvis'....as I started as a disc jockey in the 1950s.

    I was in Korea working for Armed Forces Radio when the Beatles hit the country -- nay, hit the world -- and I failed to recognize the underlying melodiousness of their work.

    Then came the crash -- small groups making loud sounds -- throbbing rythms with words shouted or rasped -- and we Tony Martin/Mel Torme lovers did not have a chance. Then came Marilyn Manson and Texaco dropped the Met. (Manson, BTW, is one cool cookie in business and thought).

    I was just speaking with a producer of a small mainstream movies who wanted some bridges (about 90 seconds) of music all told. It took him $20,000 with live musicians and studio time to get it exactly right. Exactly right music is to expensive for the little guy who is not very fast in composing, as well as being very creative working in long form and getting public notice. Academics are the only people I know (and a very few pros) who get the time to dabble in long form orchestral writing. And when, since "Be Happy," have you heard a tune on the radio you could whistle without being a cowboy or country fan trying to drink yourself to death because your dog left you and your wife didn't.

    These are some reasons why I love GPO and my Mac. At last I can dabble without a six pack and a meloncholy song hanging in my head. Someday I may even finish an opus I have had in mind for 20 years. Yes a long form -- and melodious. I would not expect any commercial success for those reasons -- at least with anyone under 35 years of age.

    Another comment -- look at the body of work that Richard Rogers produced -- then figure out where he made his money and acquired fame. My guess is you will agree it was melody -- but not in longer forms of "formal" music. Musicals are as arduous -- and can be technically as difficult. But the numbers, to me, are still short form. And those musicals' numbers that fit on records with tunes that could be hummed in that era -- became popular hits -- well before Elvis, and the downfall of western civilization to the huns of punk rock and rap.

    GC

  5. #5

    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    Quote Originally Posted by chmara
    And those musicals' numbers that fit on records with tunes that could be hummed in that era -- became popular hits -- well before Elvis, and the downfall of western civilization to the huns of punk rock and rap.
    I would not say the music of western civilization is falling at all. There are the basic elements of music (melody, harmony, and such) and they have always been used in different ways in different times. If you turn on the radio and listen to a pop song that may only have two or three melodies that just keep getting repeated, and compare it to the grandeur of a Beethoven symphony, the pop song will seem a very poor piece of work. But works like that have always existed alongside the major orchestral works we compare them to. When we hear the kind of music we don't like, it's certainly annoying, kind of like hearing slang we didn't grow up with, but I wouldn't worry about it changing the world of music or ending the creation of the grand orchestral sounds we love.
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  6. #6
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    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    Please....Don Davis, Eliot Goldenthal, and Eric Whitacre are all working on or releasing operas. When Beethoven wrote his symphony you don't think a guy was sitting at home playing Dmin to Amaj all day on a pianoforte?

    The difference today is simply the availability. I like Mozart, Stravinsky, I like linkin Park, I like Charlie Parker, miles davis, propellarheads, coldplay, U2, pink floyd, Hans Zimmer, John Williams, Glen Miller, just about everybody that posts here and hell though it's hard to admit I LIKE "in da club" by 50 cents producer( I give everyone here the right to shoot me now if you want )....but not country The day I know all there is about music, is the same day I can tell someone to their face..."you don't like, what you like!"

    Having said that...what do I know? I think the REAL difference is emotion perhaps. There is music I listen to, to evoke my emotions..and there is music I listen to BECAUSE of my emotions...that could be the difference.

    How about them apples?

  7. #7

    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Gamble
    Having said that...what do I know? I think the REAL difference is emotion perhaps. There is music I listen to, to evoke my emotions..and there is music I listen to BECAUSE of my emotions...that could be the difference.
    Yes, the reasons people listen to (or compose) music are also different, which affects what they think of them. But one man's emotions can be another man's noise.
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    This is one of those "WHY?" questions....the answer is "It's all relative"...hehe. Who said that

  9. #9

    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    Sorry, Ido not have the time to read all the posts, so just my two cents about the initial question.

    1. Noise is non intentional accoustic waves, produced by unwanted sources and is normally disturbing. This can be a Mozart sinfony played very looud by your neighbour, especially if you prefer Britney Spears.

    2. Music is a language, produced and listened intentionally (that's why I do consider the music in the supermarket as noise). It has the purpose either to please poeple, to make money or be a creative work af art - or all three together.

    3. sometime the border between music and noise can be semanticaly problematic, because what for one is music can be noise for another one. Nobody can forbid you to listen -intentionally- to jet-engine noise and enjoy it.....??????

  10. #10

    Re: Music, noise, noise, music?

    Quote Originally Posted by IGOR
    Nobody can forbid you to listen -intentionally- to jet-engine noise and enjoy it.....??????
    Jet-engine noise will always be music to my ears!
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

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