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Topic: Even more popping noise

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Even more popping noise

    Okay, so I checked around on the forum a bit after having encountered this problem, and found lots of good answers, but none that seemed to help in my case. When I load lots of brass samples, in this case some normal horn and trumpet players plus their respective overlays, I get popping noises when they play together, almost the sound of someone snapping their knuckles.

    1) I have downloaded the update for NI player
    2) I have reduced output volume from the player without any effect
    3) I have tampered with all pan pots
    4) I have changed buffer size, from 128 to 2048, and though the crackling seemed to increase at 128, it did not disappear at 2048.
    5) I am not using DFD

    I have a deadline in one week, and I'm starting to feel the panic of having to come up with and alternative solution for this problem. Please help me! I'm using Cubase SX 2 on a brand new PC with 3.2gHz and 1 gig of ram.

    Regards,
    Jonatan

  2. #2

    Re: Even more popping noise

    Does this happen when the brass parts are solo'ed? Are you maxing out your CPU? Theres' a lot of questions still unanswered that may shed light on the problem. What type of soundcard are you using in this rig? Is there a small snippet of the midi/cubase file containing a portion that has this particular problem that you can post?

  3. #3

    Re: Even more popping noise

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burrell
    Does this happen when the brass parts are solo'ed? Are you maxing out your CPU? Theres' a lot of questions still unanswered that may shed light on the problem. What type of soundcard are you using in this rig? Is there a small snippet of the midi/cubase file containing a portion that has this particular problem that you can post?
    I tested it some more, and it seems the noise only happens when any of the brass tracks are activated, and is absolutely most apparent when one of the overlays are activated. It is not, however, audible when the overlays are soloed, and increases with the amount of tracks active. Strange thing is, I don't have any problem running 12 string tracks, but as soon as I have one brass player and one overlay the clicking and popping can be heard. I tried substituting a brass track for the Steinway piano (which should require the most memory), and no noise was heard when playing together with the strings, but started immediately when played together with the brass as well.

    I have trouble thinking I'm maxing out my CPU as the problem begins with only two brass tracks but doesn't happen when I'm running the entire song without brass. Besides, a 3.2 gHz p4 should cope with Garritan, right? I have installed all music software to a secondary SATA harddrives (which I heard should give better performance), and the system was freshly installed just a few days ago.

    As for soundcard I'm using a MOTU 828 (not mk II) with the latest drivers.

    If you still want a midi snippet I can try to make one, but it seemed like I was not allowed to attach files...

    Thanks,
    Jonatan

  4. #4
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    Re: Even more popping noise

    Do you have CC7/CC10 option enabled? If so, then you are probably clipping the player. The CC7 levels should not be set any higher than about 60 or you will get clipping when all instruments play together.

  5. #5

    Re: Even more popping noise

    My situation is virtually identical to TechnoCop's in every detail, except that I have an SBAudigy sound card. This, combined with the fact that I've used the GPO with my other card (Yamaha sw1000xg) and gotten virtually the same performance level might suggest that this has less to do with sound cards than some other factors.

    The other day I started a little piece and the first few measures had a lot of strings and some horns and various percussion. I never had a problem with. Perfect. Then in the next few measures all I have playing is the french horns (3 or 4 or them), 2 flutes, and then when I added the french horn aggressive overlay it started with the extreme popping and banging noises. Oddly enough, when I replaced it with the regular FF horn overlay, it stopped doing it (I believe the aggressive overlays use more complex algorithms, do they not?)

    The other problem spot in that song is where I use a brief cymbal roll (I think I just used 16ths to get a decent roll in that situation).

    This really sounds like memory-related issues to me, but like technocop, I do have the recommended 1 gig of RAM. I've also tried the same things he has but to no avail.

  6. #6

    Re: Even more popping noise

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn
    Do you have CC7/CC10 option enabled? If so, then you are probably clipping the player. The CC7 levels should not be set any higher than about 60 or you will get clipping when all instruments play together.
    I did not have CC7/CC10 enabled, and changing it did not change the problem in any way. Having listened more to it I can almost certainly say it is not normal clipping, the error occurs randomly when the horns are playing and sometimes sounds VERY strange. If I could post attachments I would post a short mp3 (<100kb) where you can hear the problem at its worst. I could send it to someone's email if you'd like to listen.

    On the memory issue, I did not have the same problem on my last computer, a laptop with 512 megs of ram. However, I did have DFD installed on that system, so I might try installing that here as well to see if the problem goes away...

  7. #7

    Re: Even more popping noise

    No more ideas as to how I may solve this problem? Should I download and try DFD?

  8. #8

    Re: Even more popping noise

    Are they playing chords or single notes. You'd be surprised how quickly the CPU will redline if you don't manage your tracks carefully. For example... 3 brass patches playing three note chords along with an overlay = 12 voices. This isn't bad in and of itself but when added to everything else going on, you end up redlining your CPU rather quickly. That's why it makes sense to have each instrument of the brass ensemble taking one note from the chord (which is realistic, BTW.) I'm not sure if this may be the case or not. It certainly could be the case with the release trigger instruments or played in percussion rolls. In this case, its best to reduce the polyphony allowed per instrument when sequencing and then when mixing down (a track at a time), bring the polyphony back up to a normal level for those instruments.

  9. #9

    Re: Even more popping noise

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burrell
    Are they playing chords or single notes. You'd be surprised how quickly the CPU will redline if you don't manage your tracks carefully. For example... 3 brass patches playing three note chords along with an overlay = 12 voices. This isn't bad in and of itself but when added to everything else going on, you end up redlining your CPU rather quickly. That's why it makes sense to have each instrument of the brass ensemble taking one note from the chord (which is realistic, BTW.) I'm not sure if this may be the case or not. It certainly could be the case with the release trigger instruments or played in percussion rolls. In this case, its best to reduce the polyphony allowed per instrument when sequencing and then when mixing down (a track at a time), bring the polyphony back up to a normal level for those instruments.
    I currently have five horn tracks and five trumpet tracks. I have four voices. Each track plays one note except for the one overlay, which plays two, and a pair of tracks play each voice otherwise. The setup for my strings is even more complex, but does not produce any artifacts. I have mailed NI as about this as well now, but I'd still appreciate any help.

  10. #10

    Re: Even more popping noise

    Well, I'm still pondering the situation. No promises, but I'm here working it.

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