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Topic: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

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  1. #1

    Question OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    In the "time-is-passing montage" scenes, where the king grows sicker and the princess swoons with the memory of her happy moments with Wallace, etc, the theme there was especially well done I always thought in the theater version, which seems to be the same as the VHS. Something I noticed forever ago (like years) but totally forgot about, was that the DVD version does not use the same music there. Similiar, but not the same, and imo it is unquestionably weaker, even hollow when compared to the original.

    Anyone else notice this or have a clue as to why? Just something I've wondered about for a long time. When I bought the original soundtrack (when the film first came out) I was actually searching for those few mintutes of music and was disapointed to discover it not on the cd. It was included with the "More Music from Braveheart" cd, which I hadn't even bothered to check out 'till a friend told me about it. It's just the way the strings fall in a well-done, cascading sort of motion that always got me. Anyway, just wondering, figured maybe someone here is more in the know with something like this.

    thnx - mike

  2. #2

    Re: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    Usually, the director is the responsible guy for the cutting of the movie. When the music is delivered for the movie, directors sometimes sees the music as an asset to use in what ever manner he feels fitting - as opposed to a dimension of the story which is meant to run parallell with the visual story.

    So, at the cutting board, the director (or whoever is responsible for the cut we see of the movie) they got the music at hand, and sometimes they try the part of the music originally intended for a different part of the movie in a part where it was not intended by the composer/composers. It's like the director sees the music as sort of a library of loops or emotional cues that he/she puts wherever he/she seems fitting. What might fit the ending of the movie might create a new and interesting effect if put over another scene in the movie instead - or "also".

    Sometimes it is also that the director does not feel 100% content with the music. Although the music might be perfectly done according to his instructions and intentions, he may be in a different creative mood when the cutting comes into play. So what does he do? call the composer back up to redo things or do things new again? nah, more time and money is needed for that and sometimes that feels akward and uncomfortable from a social point of view. So instead he might try the music on different scenes than it was originally intended.

    I'd say most movies has got traces of this, more or less - even the blockbusters. Last week I was watching Alien 3, and the ending of that movie contains music where you can clearly hear that it is a rather rough cut out of the ending theme, where the part of the music which contains the final resolving of all tensions (sort of "where the cymbals finally clash") is actually repeated 3 times in a row. Would a composer do this intentionally? I seriously doubt it, because it sounds so rough and it's almost as if you can almost "hear " the sudden decay of things when the cut in the original music is made.

    In addition, some cutters (or even the director himself) tries different things when the movie is re-done for another medium - for example from VHS to DVD. Earlier, the "speciel edition" or "director's cut" version was actually the director's cut. But today "director's cut" is usually just another way to milk the user market for more money by releasing the same product in a new version. That usually includes trying new things with the story and also with the music.

    As musicians we all dread this, but after all .. it's the director's movie; unless we bring in juridical terms into the equation which usually ends up getting us "the right" and getting payed for intrusion in our artistical intentions, but then never getting the call again.
    Kid: When I become an adult I wanna be a musician.
    Parent: Son, you cannot become both.

  3. #3

    Re: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    Well, I have wondered what possessed them to make that change, as its pretty much the only noticeable difference between the original and the DVD version. Maybe the music there just called too much attention to itself and distracted from the film... that seems like idiocy to me, as there was no dialogue and no sfx for minutes as this played, so the fact that the music really rose to the occassion and kept peoples' interest in a montage seems like a good thing to me. Oh well.

    Good news is - I'll just rip that section of the DVD, replace that music with the original score taken from the More Music CD, and since there's nothing but music there anyway for the most part, and no real obstacle that I couldn't work around, burn that to a new DVD. Yay for technology! Might take the better part of an evening, but I really do like the movie, so it's worth it for me anyway.

  4. #4

    Re: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    So now we have not only "Director's Cut" but "Consumer's Cut" as well.
    Westgate Studios
    Sound Libraries for Gigastudio and Kontakt

  5. #5
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    Re: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    One might consider the possibility that if the original music was too close to someone else's music (or even exact) then it may have been replaced for legal reasons. Music for DVD release's can require huge liscensing fees. The production company may have had to pay a stiff fee retroactively on the feature if someone discovered that the music was "lifted" from another source or was a too closely copied temp track.

    Something to think about with this particular composer.

    dpc

  6. #6

    Re: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpc
    Something to think about with this particular composer.
    I didn't know who the composer was on Braveheart until I read that comment. Had my suspicions, so I checked on Amazon, I was correct. LOL

  7. #7

    Re: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by pmwaring
    I didn't know who the composer was on Braveheart until I read that comment. Had my suspicions, so I checked on Amazon, I was correct. LOL
    FYI, James Horner's score to Braveheart is an absolutely brilliant score. He should have won the Oscar for it (I think he was nominated).

    Grtz.

    Roy

  8. #8

    Re: OT - Braveheart VHS vs DVD score differences - why?

    I agree, my favorite of his, no question. That year, he had two nominations at the same time, Braveheart and Apollo 13, the second of which did win for original score, while Braveheart cleaned house with the likes of best picture, etc.

    Bicentennial Man's score quotes Braveheart often, and there are a few moments where it just plain sounds like he lifted the music directly. Then, after some identical builds, instead of going into the Braveheart main theme, he goes into a Braveheart alt theme or something, almost the same but not quite. First time I saw Bicentennial Man I was almost out of my seat when some of those moments hit, angry and disappointed.

    OTOH - there were also some really great, totally original moments in BicMan. It had to grow on me over time I guess.

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