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Topic: Ward Churchill

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  1. #1

    Ward Churchill

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    Just to show you how propagganda is shoow affective even liberals have believed that attack against him.

    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...43&ItemID=7188

  2. #2
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    Re: Ward Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by charles
    Just to show you how propagganda is shoow affective even liberals have believed that attack against him.

    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...43&ItemID=7188

    I'm glad you posted this, Charles.

    Read in context, Churchill's statements are pretty reasonable in my opinion.

  3. #3

    Re: Ward Churchill

    He crossed the line when he called some of the people in the towers "little Eichmanns". Eichmann scheduled trains to death camps. Many of the people in the towers were part of the system that causes both economic growth and harm, but their roles were much more coincidental than Eichmann's.

    Then again, I think he intended to be shocking. And you don't write off somebody's carreer for an overly aggressive metaphore. People on this board have compared various people to Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Stalin, Mao and others. I don't think any of us should lose our jobs over it.

    This is a case of feigned outrage in an echo chamber. The question is if the echo dies out first, or does Mr. Churchill's carreer.

    For a contrast, Robert Novak still has his job. He admits to publicizing the name of a CIA agent, which may have cost lives. He didn't insult dead people. He may have actually caused people to lose their lives. But there he is on national television every night with no echo chamber in place to destroy him.

    -JF

  4. #4

    Re: Ward Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst
    He crossed the line when he called some of the people in the towers "little Eichmanns". Eichmann scheduled trains to death camps. Many of the people in the towers were part of the system that causes both economic growth and harm, but their roles were much more coincidental than Eichmann's.
    dont know Jon


    Quote Originally Posted by article
    Churchill concludes, "If the U.S. public is prepared to accept these 'standards' when they are routinely applied to other people, they should be not be surprised when the same standards are applied to them. ... It should be emphasized that I applied the 'little Eichmanns' characterization only to those [World Trade Center workers] described as 'technicians.' Thus, it was obviously not directed to the children, janitors, food service workers, firemen and random passers-by killed in the 9-1-1 attack. According to Pentagon logic, [they] were simply part of the collateral damage. Ugly? Yes. Hurtful? Yes. And that's my point. It's no less ugly, painful or dehumanizing a description when applied to Iraqis, Palestinians, or anyone else." I'm glad he puts that gloss in about the targets of his characterization, thus clarifying what did read like a blanket stigmatization of the WTC inhabitants in his original paper.

  5. #5

    Re: Ward Churchill

    But didn't Eichmann know that he was playing an instrumental role in putting people directly to death?

    The "technicians" were part of an economic machine that is both good and bad. If one of them is auditing the financial records of a bicycle factory, it's not like that person is involved in killing anybody (except maybe somebody who rides their bike off a cliff).

    To that effect I'm also a cog in the system. I live in the US, spend money, have a mortgage, and use gasoline to drive a car. Am I no less an Eichmann?

    I think the Eichmann metaphor overgeneralizes, is insensitive and is stretched too thin. I also think that WC has a valid point: that our behavior is not in a vacuum, and that it has unintended consequences.

    And I think that the right wing has their panties in a twist by choice.

    -JF

  6. #6

    Re: Ward Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst
    But didn't Eichmann know that he was playing an instrumental role in putting people directly to death?

    The "technicians" were part of an economic machine that is both good and bad. If one of them is auditing the financial records of a bicycle factory, it's not like that person is involved in killing anybody (except maybe somebody who rides their bike off a cliff).

    To that effect I'm also a cog in the system. I live in the US, spend money, have a mortgage, and use gasoline to drive a car. Am I no less an Eichmann?

    I think the Eichmann metaphor overgeneralizes, is insensitive and is stretched too thin. I also think that WC has a valid point: that our behavior is not in a vacuum, and that it has unintended consequences.

    And I think that the right wing has their panties in a twist by choice.

    -JF
    Well by that criteria dont most people in power know they are putting people to death?
    Ok , where does one allocate responsibility?

    Eichmann may have been a SOB but he operated under a system with rules
    There are many people now who are SOB'S who are operating under a system with rules some consciously some unconsciously.
    Who is defining the context? Thats the problem we are very easy to accept the rationalisations of those with power over us, i mean the oil for food program for one, one big lie ( and a red herring to take the heat of the real crime , the sanctions, and 500,000 childeren died, and there are many who can still rationalise Clintons actions, talk about double standard

    The people in the WTC may be totally innocent , but are they any more innocent than all the other people who die and are euphenimistically classified as colateral damage.

  7. #7

    Re: Ward Churchill

    Consider that regardless of the truth underneath the situation WC made two big blunders:

    1) You can't prove a metaphor. Nobody in the towers was actually Eichmann. You can't win an argument defending a metaphor. (Or is it a simile? I remember this stuff like a sieve.)

    2) You don't win any friends by criticizing people who died in tragedy.

    Being shocking in reference to a sacred cow is one thing, but blunders 1 and 2 open you up for attack. The message gets lost, and the messenger is easily demonized.

    Then again, Pat Buchanan has made holocaust denial statements, and like Novak, he's still on TV doing his thing. Do you think Fox News or CNN might offer WC a job?

    -JF

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