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Topic: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

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  1. #1

    Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    I've finally admitted to myself that I'm just really clueless on what my initial settings should be for Finale 2005 (I'm using the latest "b" version) and GPO to play nicely with each other. There are so many variables, and I think any successes I've had up until now have been largely random.

    My problem is that volumes are always messed up. Either the little dial on each instrument doesn't stay set where I put it (the volume dial on the far right of the Kontakt Player), or the mod wheel moves up and down but there's no audible dynamic change.

    Or, I can set some instruments to be responsive to score dynamics, but not others. Etc. Etc.

    SO, here are my questions, and I'm eternally grateful to whomever can give me the low-down!

    1. What should my Human Playback settings be? Should I check the boxes "use modulation wheel for volume?" What about "smooth velocities"?
    2. Should I make volume for HP "ignore data"? Or "incorporate data"? What about velocities?
    3. Should my expressions in Finale be of the "key velocity" type? Or "controller"? Or just "none"?
    4. Anything else I should do? I'd really love to solve these problems once and for all!

    Thanks to all!
    Steve Main
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  2. #2

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Oh and one more: in the "options" setting on GPO Kontakt player, should I check the "use STD CC7 and CC10 for volume and pan" button? What does this mean, anyway?

    Thanks again
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  3. #3

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain
    3. Should my expressions in Finale be of the "key velocity" type? Or "controller"? Or just "none"?

    Thanks to all!
    Steve Main
    I don´t use HP so I can´t help you there, but to the question #3 I can say you need booth Key velocity and controller 1. Controller 1 is the main choice, but percussive instruments as drums, piano etc. need to be controlled with key velocity. And also sounds like short bow.

    Björn

  4. #4

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain
    Oh and one more: in the "options" setting on GPO Kontakt player, should I check the "use STD CC7 and CC10 for volume and pan" button? What does this mean, anyway?

    Thanks again
    No, you should not use these. CC7 & CC10 are the standard volume & pan controllers for MIDI. Since GPO has the pan in the player and uses CC1 or key velocity they are of no interest.

    Björn

  5. #5

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Yeah, I know the problem. I'm still sniffing around.
    HP is for score reading only -- if you perform your stuff into score I don't think HP is of much use. I create a playback score and put what I need in there. In HP I only use Automatic expression. Maybe 'standard' mood et al.

    Perc. is velocity only while the rest are both - that is attack and volume.
    I have two dynamics set -- eg. FFFF - is set as 127 velocity and another FFFF is set at 127 modulation with controller set to '1'

    Things are weird but I found that my strings (orchesral) seldom have a velocity setting less than 'F' (88 on VELO scale) and dynamic almost never above 'mp' (36 on MOD scale).
    Against this I can put trumpets and horns up to FFF velo with an FFF modu and achieve a good balance with trumpets in power mode -- a little heavy for the horns at that level tho'. Bones are set 2 levels down ie. F and F .
    At that level I can put a snare at velo FFFF and it still won't cut like it should -- that is demolish anything in it's way. For those esp. true moments I load a separate sample and kick the vloume up in GPO for that 'instance'.
    Quirky.

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain
    I've finally admitted to myself that I'm just really clueless on what my initial settings should be for Finale 2005 (I'm using the latest "b" version) and GPO to play nicely with each other. There are so many variables, and I think any successes I've had up until now have been largely random.

    My problem is that volumes are always messed up. Either the little dial on each instrument doesn't stay set where I put it (the volume dial on the far right of the Kontakt Player), or the mod wheel moves up and down but there's no audible dynamic change.

    Or, I can set some instruments to be responsive to score dynamics, but not others. Etc. Etc.

    SO, here are my questions, and I'm eternally grateful to whomever can give me the low-down!

    1. What should my Human Playback settings be? Should I check the boxes "use modulation wheel for volume?" What about "smooth velocities"?
    2. Should I make volume for HP "ignore data"? Or "incorporate data"? What about velocities?
    3. Should my expressions in Finale be of the "key velocity" type? Or "controller"? Or just "none"?
    4. Anything else I should do? I'd really love to solve these problems once and for all!

    Thanks to all!
    Steve Main

  6. #6

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Lest I slight Woodies!

    You're on your own -- I find particular notes 'pop out' ---- I can have a flute passage where the top note is an mf mod and a lower note is pp Mod.

    I think this might have to do within sampling along a scale and hence when a passage involves register changes, the ear hears the misperception with more acuity in the blending of winds what with their varying tonal qualitites in the different registers. It has to be the most complex.

    Jerry

  7. #7
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    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain

    SO, here are my questions, and I'm eternally grateful to whomever can give me the low-down!

    1. What should my Human Playback settings be? Should I check the boxes "use modulation wheel for volume?" What about "smooth velocities"?
    2. Should I make volume for HP "ignore data"? Or "incorporate data"? What about velocities?
    3. Should my expressions in Finale be of the "key velocity" type? Or "controller"? Or just "none"?
    4. Anything else I should do? I'd really love to solve these problems once and for all!

    Thanks to all!
    Steve Main
    Steve,
    I admit that some of the labeling of the HP controllers is rather vague. A lot of it is trial and error unfortunately. Here's a few recommendations.

    1. Check Optimize for Garritan. Check "use mod wheel for volume" I keep smooth velocities checked, but I'm not sure what that one does.

    2. The various "midi data" choices with ignore, incorporate, etc.. HP will add all of these elements in it's own playback of the file. If I choose incorporate, this means that if I've placed any specific midi information into the file, HP will add that data into it version of the playback, still adding it's own interpretation. If you choose ignore HP, only the data you've entered specifically in will playback. Nothing else would be added. Choosing ignore data means that HP does all of the work and anything you've entered won't be played back. These choices are worth playing around with until find what works for you. I don't think there is any rule which would tell you how to set these in all circumstances. (I usually leave mine on incorporate.)

    3. Leave the expressions all at velocity playback. HP looks at the staff name to determine if the dynamics should be changed to mod wheel or left at velocity during playback. If you set a dynamic's playback to none, that's what you'll hear. Nothing.

    4. Experiment. HP gives us a lot of choices. Play around with them and listen. They're not written in stone. You'll eventually become familiar with the terminology used and how it effects the playback.

    Jeff

  8. #8

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner
    Steve,

    3. Leave the expressions all at velocity playback. HP looks at the staff name to determine if the dynamics should be changed to mod wheel or left at velocity during playback. If you set a dynamic's playback to none, that's what you'll hear. Nothing.

    4. Experiment. HP gives us a lot of choices. Play around with them and listen. They're not written in stone. You'll eventually become familiar with the terminology used and how it effects the playback.

    Jeff
    But while we are all here -- what's with the reverb settings. Where is it? Does it actually affect the Ambience settings?

    jerry

  9. #9

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    The reverb settings are for the softsynth only.
    I use HP exclusively because I don't have time to perform my scores into it. I have gotten an ok sound out of it (I'm happy with it), but I am curious about a couple things.

    the main thing is, with "Optimize for GPO" checked, how do you adjust the articulation without necessarily putting in accents? I figure if you change the velocity of the note, it will actually adjust the volume with the Optimize for GPO checked because it converts the data to MOD wheel data?

    Hmmm... I don't know. That slow string attack can get a little annoying if you don't want it.

    I leave everything checked on the top except for "Final Bars" unless I want that. The only thing I usually check in the lower section is the Automatic Expression. They have fixed the problem of notes getting really loud at the beginning of decrescendos in the latest Finale update. I tested it last night.

    Another thing I am curious about is why doesn't any dynamics or expressions seem to work in layer 2?
    Jess Hendricks
    DMA Student and Teaching Asst in Music Theory/ Composition at the University of Miami
    Personal Website

  10. #10

    Re: Okay, I admit it: big Finale 2005/GPO problems. HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by jesshmusic
    The reverb settings are for the softsynth only.

    Hmmm... I don't know. That slow string attack can get a little annoying if you don't want it.
    On this point --like I said above put in a dynamic expression at the beginning at a Velocity of 88 -- use a score expression and add it to all strings. This, in effect, puts an accent on everything -- there shouldn't be any reason why you can't get exactly the kind of attack you want. The problem I have with using the accent symbol in playback is that the different instruments are affected in different ways. You almost have to have a different accent setting for each instrument. Much easier to use the percussion dynamics for the accents.

    Likewise I use an LV/NV sustain on/off for all string and wind slurs and turn the HP slur off -- it doesn't work for the strings anyhow.
    But here again there is some roughness in performance -- sometimes coming off a slur makes the following note 'pop' at a different dynamic level -- so it sometimes pays to turn the slur on and leave it till a rest arrives and then turn it off.

    Jerry

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