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Topic: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

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  1. #1
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    Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    New Scientist News Service reports about translation software that develops an understanding of languages by scanning through thousands of previously translated documents.

    Here's the article: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7054

    The new software, developed by Kevin Knight and Daniel Marcu at the Information Sciences Institute (at the University of Southern California) takes a statistical approach, building probabilistic rules about words, phrases and syntactic structures.

    According to the article "The translated documents used to teach the translation algorithms can be electronic, on paper, or even audio files"

    Audio files..hmmm. Can this thing learn music? Since music is a language I wonder if we'll be seeing software that learns a person's performance or composing styles and nuances.

    Gary Garritan

  2. #2

    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    I think all its going to take is for someone/some company to sit an write an exhausting list of rules. That's all it appears this does is "learn" (write a rule) based on what's been done in the past. If a set of rules were to be written for music and notation and sample libs, there would have to be too many standards for all the companies to agree IMHO.

    A great idea and I hope it happens soon - would help all of us; Styxx with his theater productions and me with my rock opera, etc....

    So Gary, wanna start writing some rules?
    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

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    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Audio files..hmmm. Can this thing learn music?
    Since music is a language I wonder if we'll be seeing software that learns a
    person's performance or composing styles and nuances.
    Gary,

    for music the problem might be easier, because music doesn't have semantics
    and in a way the syntax is more free. Only the "letters" are much, much more
    complicated compared to "normal" languages.

    Lauri Gröhn
    metacomposer
    www.synestesia.com

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    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by lgrohn
    Gary,

    for music the problem might be easier, because music doesn't have semantics
    and in a way the syntax is more free. Only the "letters" are much, much more
    complicated compared to "normal" languages.

    Lauri Gröhn
    metacomposer
    www.synestesia.com
    I agree Lauri. Music may be easier. This program seems to learn rather than be programmed with rules.

    I am wondering if you can plug in every piece of work that say Beethoven, Gershwin or Francesco has ever done - and the program would "learn" their language - their inflections, style, nuances, how they approach phrases, etc. Francesco in a box - what a nice thought.

    Gary

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    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    I am wondering if you can plug in every piece of work that say Beethoven,
    Gershwin or Francesco has ever done - and the program would "learn" their language - their
    inflections, style, nuances, how they approach phrases, etc. Francesco in a box - what a nice
    thought.
    Professor David Cope has in a way done this for Bach and some other composers:
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...18/ai_81466098

    The CD included in that book gives you an opportunity to quess which piece is composed by human and which by computer.

    My own interest is in software that creates original music.. How far can computers go in creativity?
    "The problem" is, of course, that we humans still have the listerners' role....

    Lauri Gröhn
    www.synestesia.com

  6. #6

    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    This program seems to learn rather than be programmed with rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by the Article
    ...the new software...takes a statistical approach, building probabilistic rules
    This will be true for any AI, always. It can't make decisions based on anything other than the rules and laws we give it, whether it is the "three laws" from iRobot or whatever laws this program has - they are always just certain rules.

    As much as I wish software could be smart and could understand what I shout at my computer monitor and bang into my keyboard when something isn't working right - it won't happen - until I write a rule/macro that says something to the effect of:

    {when "# of keys mashed" = > 1
    run -> "Calm_down_Alan_music.exe"}

    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

  7. #7

    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Hmmm . . . very interesting . . .

    As I've said before in the chat room, if the brain can do it, a computer can do it! (Except maybe be conscious, but how would we ever know that? Or have a soul, if you want to get all religious ) I know there has already been a lot of research done with computer composition, and there are some easy algorithms you can use with just the basic rules to come up with some good melodies . . . and a bunch of not so good melodies. However, for the most part, even when you get a computer to create a set of rules based on the properties of other pieces, the end result tends to be gobbledy-gook. Obviously there is something missing from the equation. I'm not talking about emotion. Actually, I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Will there ever be a computer that can write good music? I don't know. (Yeah, I know, 'good' is subjective . . . ) Is it possible for a computer to write good music? Of course! But if I ever developed that program that wrote music, I think I'd keep it for myself, and pass off its compositions for my own, and pretend like it never existed . . . if I shared it, all composers would be doomed; if I kept it, the possibilities would be much more grand! Actually, perhaps I'm already using it!

    That David Cope book looks interesting, I may have to check it out . . .
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  8. #8

    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lastufka
    This will be true for any AI, always. It can't make decisions based on anything other than the rules and laws we give it, whether it is the "three laws" from iRobot or whatever laws this program has - they are always just certain rules.
    Which is also how the brain composes music . . .
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

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    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lastufka
    This will be true for any AI, always. It can't make decisions based on anything
    other than the rules and laws we give it, whether it is the "three laws" from
    iRobot or whatever laws this program has - they are always just certain rules.
    There are rules on two different levels. The rules of music theory and
    the rules of composing. My Synestesia Software has the limited set of rules
    of music theory, but after that it takes part of composing rules from any
    pictures given to it (based on different rules, of course) and part of the
    rules (parameters) from humans. Taking more and more (the rest of ?) parameters
    from the picture itself reduces the human interaction. The parameters are re-usable
    so in a way one could say that Synestesia Software is an "independent
    picture eater composer". Piece number 23 here:
    www.synestesia.com
    is an example of re-use of parameter. It was composed (the midi file was generated)
    in 5 seconds by using parameters of another (not so succesful) piece. But what is best,
    now we have GPO and the others making this all much more enjoyable for OUR ears, too.

    LG

  10. #10

    Re: Translation Software That Learns - Is Music Next?

    Lauri Gröhn, I just checked out your website, very interesting stuff! Here I am blathering, and you seem to actually have experience

    Also, after that secret computer program that writes music is created, another program that does orchestrations would also need to be created
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

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