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Topic: idea--a good one?

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  1. #1

    idea--a good one?

    Hey, all!

    I'm attempting to create an orchestral sample library, and I came up with an idea for the strings. To my knowledge, I haven't seen this idea anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong).
    For the strings, I was thinking that it would add a lot more realism and control to have notes all sampled on different strings. Take the cello, for instance. Most cellos start down on open C, go up to about the A above it on the C string, then switch to the G string. If the open C started on C2 (C4 being middle C), then samples could go up chromatically to F3, then on G3, open G would start and go up from there, sounding an octave below the note being played. Then the D string would kick in at D5 and the A string at A6.

    Since I haven't seen this idea anywhere else, I was wondering if it wasn't used for a reason, and for what reason.

    Is this a good idea?

    Chris

  2. #2

    Re: idea--a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    Hey, all!

    I'm attempting to create an orchestral sample library, and I came up with an idea for the strings. To my knowledge, I haven't seen this idea anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong).
    For the strings, I was thinking that it would add a lot more realism and control to have notes all sampled on different strings. Take the cello, for instance. Most cellos start down on open C, go up to about the A above it on the C string, then switch to the G string. If the open C started on C2 (C4 being middle C), then samples could go up chromatically to F3, then on G3, open G would start and go up from there, sounding an octave below the note being played. Then the D string would kick in at D5 and the A string at A6.

    Since I haven't seen this idea anywhere else, I was wondering if it wasn't used for a reason, and for what reason.

    Is this a good idea?

    Chris
    Actually sounds like a good idea.

    I'm actually hoping that libraries don't use any open strings as the sound is really different and the uses for it not that many. If they do maybe they should mark out a separate patch for it.

    It's always kind of a shock to me, especially in older libraries to hit a low d in the violins and it suddenly rings out. I try to never use open strings unless I'm arpeggiating and I want the bass note of the arpeggio to ring out. But other than that I say put your fingure on the strings at all times.

    Of course you'll need to make an exception for the lowest note.

    Cheers,

    Keep up the good work!!!

  3. #3

    Re: idea--a good one?

    Chris - this is a good idea - I did this on my debut sample library released last year. I sampled the notes on all the strings and overlapped them on the keyboard using keyswitches to switch between strings in real time while the user was playing (I also did index and middle finger variations of the plucking and round robin'ed those for added authnticity).

    Keep down your path of ideas - you'll make a great developer so long as you keep asking "why" and "why not".
    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

  4. #4

    Re: idea--a good one?

    This idea may be applied to other instruments as well. The Brass for example, where most brass instruments uses natural overtones in the form of "positions" for trombones and valve combinations for valve brass instruments. Many percussion instruments could be included in this idea as well.

    If I would try to find something to worry about with this, it would be that the difference between different strings would be too noticable, so when playing a repeating pattern between to notes on two different strings it will sound like some variant of the machine-gun effect. However, this could be taken care of in the editing stages along with careful testing and a good ear.

    Interesting idea
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  5. #5
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    Re: idea--a good one?

    The only issue I see with using different ranges of the keyboard for different strings would be that conventional notation would no longer work, and even reading a piano roll or event list would be a pain in the ~~~. Using a controller (or keyswitch, as Alan did) would preserve the pitches.

    But I like the idea in principle. There might be something down that road. Larry Seyer did as much with his drum library, but there aren't pitches to worry about there....

    - Stefan

  6. #6

    Re: idea--a good one?

    Some guitar and bass libs have used the notes on each string approach. I haven't seen that for bowed strings.

    What would be really cool would be an automatic program that looks at the previous notes and decides the correct range. That would be for real-time playing. Then you could run the MIDI through an automated process that would look backwards and forwards to analyze the music and choose the best string/position. Maybe there would be a preference setting to tend towards higher/middle/low strings/positions.

    If it's automatic (like round-robin instruments and resonance instruments in GS3), then everybody who buys the lib will use the feature. If it's manual, then only those with time and motivation will use it.

    -JF

  7. #7

    Re: idea--a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbkp
    The only issue I see with using different ranges of the keyboard for different strings would be that conventional notation would no longer work, and even reading a piano roll or event list would be a pain in the ~~~. Using a controller (or keyswitch, as Alan did) would preserve the pitches.
    I see where you're coming from with the keyswitches, but the main reason I thought of this was so that double stops would be more realistic--especially in Bach's Cello Suite no. 1 movement 1. It's very ringie and would not work without this. And, depending on the style of the music, open strings could be very desirable.
    See, what I've been doing is looking through every single peice of my cello repertuaire (is that how you spell it?) and one other that sticked out was the Saint Saens cello concerto no.1 in A minor. It has a plethura of double-stops that just wouldn't sound right without my idea.
    If I'm sampling a good musician with a good instrument, you shouldn't hear a drastic difference between the strings. And even if you did, it would only be natural, and you would hear that in a real orchestral recording anyway.

    I will also probably have an instrument designed for quick sketching of ideas and notation that doesn't have the crazy programing or string switches. I was thinking the quick sketching instruments could be used for notation, and the crazy string switching ones for reaslistic audio files.

    And I don't know about how y'all compose, but when I'm working in the piano roll view, I just click and move up or down untill I find the right note. I don't even look at the keyboard at the right. (this probably isn't all that efficient, but I guess you can call it a bad habbit )

    Any other suggestions?

    Chris

  8. #8

    Re: idea--a good one?

    I think in the future we'll see smarter technology that will allow the computer to analyze the passage and determine the best "fingering". As an example, the guitar has many notes that overlap, but the timbre of the A on the 17th fret of the low E is radically different from the same note on the 2nd fret of the G string. I'm sure the strings and other instruments that have overlapping notes are the same.
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  9. #9

    Re: idea--a good one?

    GOS has some patches that provide notes on alternate strings (there's a name for it but it's escaping me right now). But it's not as complete or flexible as what you're talking about. Sounds like a great idea to me!

  10. #10
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    Re: idea--a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    I see where you're coming from with the keyswitches, but the main reason I thought of this was so that double stops would be more realistic
    That's a good point. I'll give that one some thought.

    - Stefan

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