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Topic: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

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  1. #1

    Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    I got Backbeat SAGE Expansion and I am very happy of it. It sounds so much good. But I noted that it lacks ARRANGEMENT SECTIONS grooves. I want to say that for each groove would have been very useful "intros, versus and chorus sub-grooves". Now, if I use a groove for a versus, I haven't a similar but stronger groove to use in the chorus section, I have only 2 or 3 grooves of similar atmosphere.
    Obviously the versus groove utilized in chorus section makes the arrangement less interesting.
    Any comments?

    Ciao

    Fulvio

  2. #2

    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    You could consider the original the 'chorus' version, then simplify and cut the velocities back on an edited version for the verses. The primary grooves certainly stand out strongly enough to handle that. Also, maybe pump up the originals, add some extra gain and distortion to backbeats, etc.
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  3. #3

    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    Yes, this can be true, but I miss i.e. some grooves with ride in place of hihat, or the same groove made with snare and stick, or with closed hh and open hh, etc. For example I like the groove "foundation" and I would use it in a open hihat mode, but to get it I have to change the groove with the consequent change of kick, snare, etc. Of course I can use 2 grooves in 2 parts and mute something, but also in this case I have some limitations, because I could mute downbeat or backbeat but if there is say a snare and a hi-hat BOTH on beat 2...say you take out the snare...you loose that hi-hat hit as well.

    Fulvio

  4. #4

    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    I'm still very much a beginner in the depths of RMX, but using a different groove with the sounds you want, trigger from the midi slikce that plays the hit you are after. Uses two (or more) channels, and is a lot of extra effort, but it is possible at least. It always is a problem when there are two instruments on the same beat, but many grooves use the same kit, just find the individual parts where they live in the other groove...

    There may be a better way, but I have done this a couple times and it does get the job done. We're working with audio slices, and if a hit has two instruments, there isn't much you can do to separate them, but this is the workaround that I have found.

    Anybody got a better idea?
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    I think (and this is just my thoughts on this), that Backbeat was released at a time when most of us were still using a hardware sampler for this type of thing. Perhaps a few were compiling multi tracks into their workstations, but that was the exception, not the rule.

    Obviously, things have changed!

    If having those sections is important to you (as it is to me as well), you might want to look at Discrete Drums. I own all of these libraries, and I can tell you, it's exactly what you're wanting.

    M-Audio sells these loops as REX 2 files, so you could buy them in that format, import into Stylus, and be off an running.

    I bought these libraries long before RMX was available, or I would have done the same thing. As it stands, I've been dropping the stereo 16 bit loops into Recycle, and growing my own...

    Backbeat is great, and has a lot of personality, but it just wasn't recorded at a time when it was feasible to have all of the various "sections" of a song, loaded into a hardware sampler.

    My 2 cents on the subject...

  6. #6

    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    I know what you mean. If Backbeat SAGE expander had 4 or 5 times as much content I'd probably buy it. The best thing I ever did for drums was to hire a drummer, go into a studio, give the drummer 6 different tempos on click track and let him run with it! I got so much great stuff, and now I can recycle everything and pull it into RMX. I did this 3 or 4 years ago and it's still extremely useful stuff.

  7. #7

    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    If Backbeat SAGE expander had 4 or 5 times as much content I'd probably buy it.
    With the Chaos functions, it does...
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  8. #8

    Question Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    Quote Originally Posted by Phattlippz
    I know what you mean. If Backbeat SAGE expander had 4 or 5 times as much content I'd probably buy it.
    ??? ....This comment is really unusual.

    The Backbeat Xpander is 1.2 gigabytes and is only $99...the same price as a simple Audio Sample CD.

    Are you saying that you don't think the Backbeat Xpander is worth a hundred bucks unless it had Six Gigabytes of Groove Control quality material?

    (...or maybe you mean that you would buy it if it had more material at a higher price? Because as far as I know, there's nothing on the market that has that kind of price/feature ratio)

    The Backbeat Xpander is half the price of the CD-ROM version and you get a whole tons of cool Bonus grooves and a ton of custom made Multis that weren't on the original version.

    Most drum libraries have a single drummer, recorded in a one room in one day with one engineer....so consequently, there's a sameness of sound from one groove to the next, which makes it have a lot less variety....even though there may be a lot of sections to one groove....it's one style of sound and feel.

    Backbeat has four different drummers, recorded on a very wide variety of kits, in lots of different studios, by lots of different engineers...so you get a lot of variety, for a very good value. Normally, you'd need to get lots of different libraries to get that kind of variety in tone and feel.

    The other thing to consider is that as nice as some of the REX libraries are, they have nowhere near the fidelity and tempo range that Groove Control products do. Commercial REX libraries (especially inexpensive ones) are almost always sliced very quickly, and often have glitches and trouble with different tempos. Groove Control activated products take a long time to create, because there is a very high quality-control standard that doesn't exist officially with REX libraries...(which can vary dramatically in quality)

    Just to clarify: REX libraries are great for fleshing out other styles, but the quality is not necessarily the same as with Groove Control products like the SAGE Xpanders...so bear that in mind when comparing products and prices.

    spectrum

    PS. You might want to check the demos page for examples of how wide the variety of high quality tones there are on Backbeat:

    http://www.spectrasonics.net/librari...beat_demos.php

  9. #9

    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    Quote Originally Posted by spectrum
    Most drum libraries have a single drummer, recorded in a one room in one day with one engineer....so consequently, there's a sameness of sound from one groove to the next, which makes it have a lot less variety....even though there may be a lot of sections to one groove....it's one style of sound and feel.
    ]
    It's usually desirable to have the same drumkit as well as drummer for an organic song. That's the way most songs that use organic-type drums are, as you know, and why organic/acoustic drum loop libraries that have a different drummer and drumkit for each set of loops can be very frustrating to work with when trying to compose a song that requires consistency throughout.

    BTW - I own RMX and have used it and really like it for repetetive groove stuff. I usually program my own parts for pop and rock where organic drums are needed. I love the feel available in loop libraries played by real drummers, but I can never ever find the loops I need to complete a whole song. Fix this problem and you'll have a lot of happy customers (in addition to the already-existing-happy ones).

    fizbin

  10. #10

    Re: Stylus RMX: Backbeat lacks "arrangement sections" grooves

    OK - please let me save face here and add what I should have added before hastily sending the email! For the record I have publically lauded the virtues of Stylus RMX, and have nothing but respect for Spectrasonics.

    Yes, I personally would pay a *much* higher price for a much larger variety. I should have mentioned, though, that I have the original Backbeat CD-ROM library, *not* the SAGE expander.

    At $99 this IS a great deal. I'd buy it in a hot second if I didn't already have the CD-ROM. Speaking from personal experience though, for putting together intricate, evolving drum parts I would want more variations in grooves and fills if possible. If I was allowed to shoot for the moon I would want:

    - a greater variety of basic grooves
    - more variations within those grooves
    - more EXTREME grooves (like crash-bashing metal grooves, etc.)
    - fills that cover 1, 2, 4 and maybe even 8 bars!
    - individual elements like hi-hat patterns, kick patterns
    - mapped kits
    - a greater selection of high-energy, in-your-face grooves (personal bias here!) that would work for harder-edged rock, sports music etc.

    For the record, I always reach for Backbeat first, for the reasons Eric outlined. The fidelity is really, really high, and the performances are top notch.

    I probably don't represent the mainstream so what I'll probably end up doing is putting together a session with my drummer of choice (who has toured with Yngwe) and go for more tempos and individual groove elements (like a variety of hi-hat patterns and bass drum patterns!) and get my son to Recycle the whole thing for me! :-)




    Quote Originally Posted by spectrum
    ??? ....This comment is really unusual.

    The Backbeat Xpander is 1.2 gigabytes and is only $99...the same price as a simple Audio Sample CD.

    Are
    http://www.spectrasonics.net/librari...beat_demos.php

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