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Topic: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

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  1. #1

    Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    I was reading the "Griegs Suite Sympathetic resonance in Piano" thread and i was wondering if it would do any good to orchestral sample libraries if :

    All the samples were recorded in the hall, while the other instruments are at their seated positions ? ( That doesn't mean the performers have to be there as well , that would be noisy as , so just the instruments where they usually sit )

    If you played a note on the cello , and there were 20 violins on the other side and some french horns and the harp , wouldn't those give a different result to the sound ? Or would the effect be very minor ?

    Edit : And one more thing ,
    If you had recorded each track seperately ( Violin , Flute etc ) with samples . And then had all the instrument Impulse Responses as well. Could there be a way to create fake resonance between what instruments are playing at any given time ? ( an impulse would contain what frequencies an instrument accentuates etc )
    Theo Krueger - Composer

    www.TheoKrueger.com

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  2. #2

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodor
    ( That doesn't mean the performers have to be there as well , that would be noisy as , so just the instruments where they usually sit )
    Hey, don't stop now. The mass and makup of those bodies wil have an impact on the sound. Better make them sit there.

  3. #3

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredProgGH
    Hey, don't stop now. The mass and makup of those bodies wil have an impact on the sound. Better make them sit there.
    Yes, i thought about that but trombone players tend to fart a lot ( I have met two and just made a fast statistic )
    Theo Krueger - Composer

    www.TheoKrueger.com

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  4. #4

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    WOW!
    Very insteresting idea.
    I'm aspiring to be a developer to some extent someday, so I think all this stuff is really cool!

    Anyways,

    I think that is a very interesting thought, because you are right. During orchestra rehersal my cello and it's strings are constantly sympetheticly viberating. Especially with the brass. Each instrument interacts with every other. Maybe developers should just get a whole bunch of instruments and lay them down on the floor during the recording session. But this would only work if you were doing a full orchestra lib. If you were doing a chamber lib you would only have a couple instruments laying around, if you get really picky.

    And if you were REALLY picky and were an EXTREME perfectionist, you would consider that each resonance ineracts with each other resonace. For example: if one frequency sets one string viberating and another frequency sets another string viberating, and another frequency sets the instrument viberating, the instrument viberating would set another string viberating which will set other strings viberating in the overtones of that string along with the other strings viberating and all their overtones!!!
    At that point of perfectionism I would just hire a real orchestra and record the performance live!

    -Chris

  5. #5

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    You're also assuming that those instruments would be present every time you use the samples. So a 20-piece orchestral violin section plus brass, etc. would NOT be present durning my string quartet piece, so that woukd have to be a different sample set.

    I seriously doubt if this is a fruitful line of research, if you can tell me how many violins are in the hall while listening to a recording of a solo violin, I'll be very surprized. And if you can hear the difference in a sample set, I'll be even more surprized - beside, wouldn't you just need resonance cues for the open strings, and maybe first harmonic or two? Gb is not going to vibrate any in-tune violin.

    And wait- the piano resonance was from a Steinway, my orchestra is using a Bose...
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  6. #6

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    Quote Originally Posted by thesoundsmith
    I seriously doubt if this is a fruitful line of research, if you can tell me how many violins are in the hall while listening to a recording of a solo violin,
    Heheh , so very true Soundsmith . I would not be able to tell for sure! But wouldn't "something" be there that made the samples performance better : Warmer or more "Live" ?

    And also , what about Impulses of instruments that would add additional harmonics , you think that could work in a way ?
    Theo Krueger - Composer

    www.TheoKrueger.com

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  7. #7

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    Not to mention you could argue all day about whether the resonance is a desirable thing anyway. In the world of drum recording things started out just recording a kit with all the bleed-over and such and no one worried. Then great pains started to be taken to put gates on the mics and seperate the signals for greater control. These days the trend is back to the leaky natural sound. The point is each approach is valid and was highly in vogue at some point and eventually it comes down to which you prefer. Sympathetic resonance in orchestral settings is accepted because there has never been anything to be done about it. With samples, it can be though. Now as to which is a preferable situation- let the wars begin.

    I'm with soundsmith, really- if anyone was ever actually able to tell the difference in a recording I'd buy them a donut.

  8. #8

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    And if you were REALLY picky and were an EXTREME perfectionist, you would consider that each resonance ineracts with each other resonace. For example: if one frequency sets one string viberating and another frequency sets another string viberating, and another frequency sets the instrument viberating, the instrument viberating would set another string viberating which will set other strings viberating in the overtones of that string along with the other strings viberating and all their overtones!!!
    At that point of perfectionism I would just hire a real orchestra and record the performance live!

    -Chris
    I never thought of that Chain Reaction of interaction ! Hehehe , sounds awesome
    Theo Krueger - Composer

    www.TheoKrueger.com

    Kontakt 2 Scripts

  9. #9

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    Usually in the orchestras I've played in the string players hold the strings while the orchestra is playing if they're not playing. I think it's just a natural thing to do as the most convenient way to hold a string instrument is around its neck. So the strings in essence get muted.

    Also, I know that percussion players go through some trouble to make sure their instruments don't reverberate during a performance. Nothing worse than a raddling snare.

    Cheers,


    Jose

  10. #10

    Re: Sympathetic Resonance in Violins ?

    Quote Originally Posted by josejherring
    Nothing worse than a raddling snare.
    (cringe) I hate that!

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