• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57

Topic: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

  1. #1

    Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    sponsored links

    I grew up about 45min. away from Tombstone in Tucson, AZ. So this issue is of some concern to me.

    After review the Minuteman website I'm affraid this movement is what I feared. While I'll give them kudos for not being affiliated with racist groups I see very little to stop people like that from joining this movement. The confederate flags waving is a bad sign.

    And, it's always strikingly funny to me that when people get up in arms about illegal immigrants, most of whom are hard working contributing memebers of our society I might add,( I mean who do you think picks those strawberrys you like to eat), it's always the ones south of the border or in New York the Domincans that they seem to be up in arms about.

    I don't see them picketing around the Canadian border or complaining about the illegal European immigrants. And, believe it our not most of the illegals I've met come from Canada, England and Ireland. Esp. Ireland. But maybe that's because I use to hang in Irish Bars in New York.

    So I think there's a double standard in this country when it comes to "illegal" aliens. I guess some aliens are more illegal than others.

    So my esteemed collegues let's discuss this without getting nasty or complaining to the management. Remeber, manners eveyone, manners.



  2. #2

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    Yeah, I read about this in the NY Times last week. I mean I think the guy who's organizing it means well, but you're going to get all these crazy folk trying to pitch in.

    IMO, when White supremecists endorse what you do-you'd think that's not a good sign.

    But Jose you are correct. I no longer live in NYC, but it's getting bad in some of the towns in Long Island. Not only are some of the smaller towns protesting illegals, but there was a cheap hotel/flop house in one town that mysteriously burned down. Turns out, it was a meeting/resting stop for illelgals.

    My wife is a sociology professor and some of the things she hears from her students about illiegals would curl your toes. It concerns me that even the perception of privilidge we Americans think we have!

    My wife and I flew out of Laguardia, a week after 9/11. Man if you had olive color skin, you might as well had pitch camp and kept your lawyer on speed dial, becuase you weren't going nowhere. They stopped anyone and everyone. That's when I was like, 'ok this war on terrorism, might be (for some), a war on ethnicity.'



  3. #3

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    Well doesn't anybody else have anything else to say. My Gawd I can't take it anymore. I miss the fire and brimstone days. You can't take the passion out of musicians you just can't. It's like taking water out of coffee. Or heat out of a fire. It's just not the same I tell you not the same. Where's Brady when you need him. At least we had passion before the shut down. At...least....we.....cared.......at least we cared.

    Whew!! Okay, I just had to get that off my chest.

  4. #4

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    Jose, I guess we discussed this a tiny bit in that other thread. I only know from what I've read in their Standard Operating Procedures, etc. My opinion is that it is probably a really good cause started by decent people, that has attracted a few non-decent people.
    "They get what they vote for." PaulR

  5. #5

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernstinen
    You better believe that the next big terrorist attacker could easily come across the border from Mexico or Canada.

    Not likely from Canada (any time soon). The NHL season was cancelled this year, remember?


  6. #6

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    I have inlaws in Silver City, NM and Clifton, AZ. This past summer we visited, and my brother-in-law, nephew, oldest son and I went down to Douglas, AZ and Aqua Prieta, Mexico on a small tour associated with my in-law's church group.

    There were two, linked organizations that we visited. One was Just Coffee, and the other was No Mas Muertes (No More Dead).

    The Just Coffee folks saw that many of the immigrants were from Chiapas in southern Mexico and found that they came north because they could not make a living with coffee anymore. They set up a consortium that pays people a fair price for the coffee. They roast it in Aqua Prieta (we got to experience it), and then sell it direct to the customer on-line (http://www.justcoffee.org). The profits are re-invested in the operation. (It's high-quality, shade grown coffee too.)

    The main goal is to keep families together in Chiapas. The young men don't want to come north. Most of them would rather grow coffee and live with their families. So, if you want to reduce illegal immigration and like the idea of people being industrious, this is a good cause.

    Note that the success of this operation is part free market, part volunteerism and part price controls. The group chooses to pay the grower a fair wage, as compared to the situation where middle-men set the lowest possible price and starve out the farmers. Economic freedom is good, but the fat middle-man problem is a well-known shortcoming of the system.

    The second group, No Mas Muertes, responds to the problem that there are hundreds of people who die in the Southwest each year. They take no political stance. If the US wants a guest worker program, fine. If they want to build a giant wall and a mote, okay. But having 350+ people die from dehydration each year is unacceptable.

    From the south side of the border, we left the highway with a van, a truck with a giant water tank and pump, and took to the dirt roads. There were 50 gallon water tanks along the path, and we filled them and check that the flags were still there.

    We met a large group of migrants along the way, including old men and children. We offered some food and they declined. Each had a small pack and a 1 gallon plastic jug. They were waiting under a tree until nightfall, when it's cooler to walk and easier to slip over the border.

    The property owners on the US-side are not happy. There have been thefts, and livestock killed, though the numbers are small enough to show that huge majority of migrants are not causing problems to the property owners. Many owners destroy the water tanks, and the value of the property has dropped as immigration increases.

    Lots of owners believe that the water tanks draw people across the border. I absolutely disagree. I put myself in the shoes of the migrants and quickly thought, "I could do this crossing with a gallon of water - and I would to feed my family - water tanks or no water tanks."

    The water is not the attraction. The jobs are.

    Anyway, it was a great experience. I hope that a guest worker program gets established. And I hope that the economics south of the border improves, so there is less need for immigration. We can build the big wall, but people will figure out a way around it. We need to remove the desire to immigrate illegally. People always find ways to do what they want and need to do.

    I only wish that I could have spent some time with the US property owners along the border. I'd love to hear more of their stories to better understand the overall situation.


  7. #7

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    I can sympathize with those that are afraid of this project attracting a criminal element. Just look at the Libertarian Party....uhehe. From what I've seen though, it's mostly local residents that are concerned about one thing or another. I think the meat of the story isn't this project, it's the situation that brought this project into being. We have to wait up to 2-hours in line to catch a plane, we can't take pictures of historical sites, they're reading our emails and raiding our personal properties, all for the miniscule chance that someone would like to perform some act of terror. Yet, anyone and their grandmother can trespass into our country, get a driver's license, health care, welfare and give birth to an American citizen. I saw on the news that there is a hospital in Phoenix, AZ that delivers a newborn every 3 hours. This is just one hospital by the border. 2/3rds of those births are from illegal immigrant.

    Because of the various political influences, this situation is not being dealt with. The feds don't want to touch this with a 10-foot pole. So what I like about this project is that they're making the government look like the incompetant boneheads they are. If something goes wrong and a bunch of Americans end up murdering people, well, we have a justice system to take care of that. Where's our border security?
    Michael Peter

    If music be the food of love...
    play on

    William Shakespeare


  8. #8

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernstinen
    Oh Oh! Here we go ----

    NACO, Ariz. -- Members of a violent Central America-based gang have been sent to Arizona to target Minuteman Project volunteers, who will begin a monthlong border vigil this weekend to find and report foreigner sneaking into the United States, project officials say.

    James Gilchrist, a Vietnam veteran who helped organize the vigil to protest the federal government's failure to control illegal immigration, said he has been told that California and Texas leaders of Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, have issued orders to teach "a lesson" to the Minuteman volunteers.

    "We're not worried because half of our recruits are retired trained combat soldiers," Mr. Gilchrist said. "And those guys are just a bunch of punks."


    It will be interesting to see what happens. Having grown up in Arizona the threat of race type wars was pretty common at least in the '70's and '80's. Problem is that Arizona is such a melow place that people upon entering the state tend to chill out. I wouldn't be suprised if the combat veterans and the Mara Salvatrucha end up sipping lemonaid on the fronch porch of somebody's house. Then going for a Siesta. At 100 degrees plus temperatures it gets too hot to have wars.



  9. #9

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernstinen
    Living in California, the cost of illegals just in health care is ruining many hospitals. ER's are closing because no one is getting paid.
    The cost of NOT having illegals in this country would be far greater on our pocketbooks. The agricultural industry would go bankrupt without them.
    Robert Gregory Browne
    KISS HER GOODBYE (now available)
    KILLER YEAR: Stories to Die For (Jan. 2008)
    St. Martin's Press

  10. #10

    Re: Minuteman Project in Tombstone Az.

    Now rob...if you had said, "The cost of NOT having immigrant workers in this country would be far greater on our pocketbooks. The agricultural industry would go bankrupt without them."...I would agree with you believe it or not.

    But, by definition...illegal immigrants and those who do not respect the laws of this country and do not go through the process the right way.....ohhhhhhhh.....don't get me started....
    Brian W. Ralston

    Check out my new FREE iPhone App! Click Here!

Go Back to forum
Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts