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Topic: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

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  1. #1

    Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    Is this possible? and with clarinet and brass?

  2. #2

    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    No for woods.
    In brass there is an articulation called "fluttertongue" that is the closest to a string tremolo, but rarely used.

    JW.

  3. #3

    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    I'm a bassoonist, and we can do fluttertongue, but not, say, perfect thirty-second notes. I'm pretty sure almost all winds can do this. How do you make a realistic bassoon (or any other wind) fluttertongue, anyway? I need it for one of my peices.

    -Chris

  4. #4
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    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam ward
    Is this possible? and with clarinet and brass?
    with a trumpet for example, you can use false fingerings on certain pitches to create a tremolo effect. By alternating quickly between the standard and the alternate fingerings you get whet sounds like a tremolo. But you have to know the instrument you're writing for. There are some pitches this works for and other pitches won't work at all.

    You can fluttertongue on any pitch but the sound is a bit harsher than a normal sound.

    JT

  5. #5
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    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    I may be mistaken, but I think he's talking about an intervalic tremolo - a fast unmeasured back and forth undulation of a certain interval. If you relate it to string technque, it would be the difference between a bowed tremolo and a fingered tremolo - the latter being what I believe he is talking about - at least that is my impression.

  6. #6

    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottnorma
    I may be mistaken, but I think he's talking about an intervalic tremolo - a fast unmeasured back and forth undulation of a certain interval. If you relate it to string technque, it would be the difference between a bowed tremolo and a fingered tremolo - the latter being what I believe he is talking about - at least that is my impression.
    Wouldn't that be a trill?

  7. #7
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    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    Trills are only major and minor seconds, whereas tremolos can theoretically be any playable interval. Also, trills are played slightly differently than even a major or minor second tremolo - depending mostly on the style, epoch, and tempo of the piece.

  8. #8

    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    Two relevant points:

    1. In brass instruments "lip trills" are not confined to minor and major 2nds. Minor and major 3rds are often used and they still qualify as "trills," albeit a special case. In fact, I'm unaware of any intervallic restriction on the term "lip trill" for brass instruments. In Jazz, lip trills become "shakes" as the player ascends into the upper register. Shakes tend to be wider than a major 2nd, often as wide as a 5th. By the time the player reaches the neighborhood of high concert "F" the overtone series is so close together that individual notes, as such, are no longer discernable - shakes at this point have a siren-like smoothness to them. They are still in the family of "trills," not tremolos. Lip trills are in contrast to trills produced with alternating valve combinations. But even in valve trills wider intervals can be encountered with certain valve combinations and they still qualify as trills.

    2. On a single sustained note there is a specific technical definition for the term "tremolo" that is related to the term "vibrato." The definitions are as follows:

    Tremolo = periodic variation in amplitude
    Vibrato = periodic variation in pitch

    With these definitions in mind for real world acoustic instruments, most "vibratos" are a combination of synchronized amplitude and pitch variations. Some instruments lean toward tremolo (strong amplitude variations, weak pitch variations) but most lean toward vibrato (strong pitch variations, weak amplitude variations.) The above definitions are the ones that apply to electronic music and synthesis as well.

    Tom

  9. #9
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    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    Trills are always and only major or minor seconds, which is why a simple accidental sign to the right of a trill symbol is all that is needed to indicate whether a non-diatonic trill is to be played as a major or minor second, since the interval class is already understood. The term "lip trill" used by brass players is just the common colloquial term used to distinguish between playing the undulation, whatever interval it may be, via the valves versus playing it with the embouchure. But minor third and larger "lip trills" are still notated as tremolos.

    But all of this is beside the point since the original question was about bassoon tremolos.

  10. #10

    Re: Tremolo for GPO bassoon?

    As a pianist I can say that the term tremelo has several meanings. Most common is two different notes played in rapid succession. On strings the term is used for this and the bowing techinque which results in one note repeated rapidly. On a vibraphone, tremelo is the device that causes the unusual vibrato effect.

    A lip trill is a tremelo, but there is a specfic technique to do it. It has to be on the fundamentals, no change of fingering.

    The only thing that is not a tremelo in this regard is a trill. A trill starts on the upper note and is only a whole tone or half tone.
    Jess Hendricks
    DMA Student and Teaching Asst in Music Theory/ Composition at the University of Miami
    Personal Website

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