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Topic: Loops and such

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  1. #1

    Question Loops and such

    Hey guys!

    What is your opinion on loops in a sample library? Are they good? Bad? So far what I've herd is that they're bad, but eventualy the player's gonna run out of breath/bow. How are you supposed to develop a sample library without loops but have the players play notes long enough to use? Should the player be sampled staggar beathing/bowing? Or sould the note be sampled for as long as possible before the player runs out of breath/bow?

    I'm trying to get a virtual alto clarinet here, so I need your opinions and such on this. Also, if you have any other wants/needs/requests for the virtual alto clarinet, let me know.

    Thanks,
    Chris

  2. #2

    Re: Loops and such

    Hi,

    I really can't buy the idea of looping non-percussive instruments. Instruments need to interpret what the composer and or arranger needs to convey in a score. I like drum loops as a foundation to keep everything in good time whereas adding additonal parts leaves no uncertainty with metronome issues.
    To have a wind or bow instrument sustain notes beyond the natural physical mechanics of playing that instrument, would offer an unnatural execution.

    With todays technology, one could create many more phrases and interpretations using a loop. It comes down to the listener at the end whether they appreciate the performance or not.

    Alan Russell
    Please Visit My New & Revised Official Website Below

    http://AlanRussell-Music.com

  3. #3

    Re: Loops and such

    It depends on what's idiomatic for the instrument. String sections can sustain notes indefinitely. Each player has to change bow direction at some point, but they make sure that they don't change at the same time. Therefore a looped string sustain would sound fine. The same thing applied to winds, or solo strings, would sound unnatural.
    Dan Powers
    www.danielpowers.info

    "It's easier to be a composer than it is to compose."
    --Ray Luke (1928-2010)

  4. #4

    Re: Loops and such

    Alto Clarinet... you're not trying to write for Carmina Burana??

    I think regardless, the programmer has to have an understanding of how the instrument works/moves breathes to achieve realism. I think there's 100 ways to get any sample wrong because of bad programming. I'd prefer to not have the sample run out like a breath, because SOMETIMES in heavy tutti sections i'd prefer to program longer notes and automate volumes (simulate sectional breathing) rather than trying to kill 'attack' transients that pop up through the mix because of a nec. re-articulation.
    evaclear
    Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm...

    My Stuff

  5. #5

    Question Re: Loops and such

    So should I have the clarinetest staggar breathe for three minuites or something?

    -Chris

  6. #6

    Re: Loops and such

    I don't really see a problem with looped instruments these days.

    Before Gigastudio pioneered release triggered samples, looping samples meant that after a certain point you were just listening to a (sometimes obvious) repeated section, and when you released the note, that section faded - either quickly or slowly. No real note release, just a slow or quick fade of what you were hearing.

    These days, between options like release triggered samples which can play different ends to a sample depending on how long the note has been played, and round robin sampling, which gives you new performances for repeated notes, looping is no longer the big red flag of sampling it used to be.

    I'd prefer to get a good performance that's a bit short, rather than a very careful one which has more length but less 'verve'. If that means looping the shorter sample to get the extra length I need on some notes - so be it. As long as the guy doing the looping does it musically.

  7. #7

    Re: Loops and such

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    So should I have the clarinetest staggar breathe for three minuites or something?

    -Chris
    Are you being cheeky?
    evaclear
    Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm...

    My Stuff

  8. #8

    Re: Loops and such

    Quote Originally Posted by evaclear
    Are you being cheeky?
    Well, I really don't know what to do!!
    If I loop the sample, that's bad, if I have the sample just end out of nowhere, that's bad, and if I have the clarinetest staggar brethe for three minuets that's bad 'cause the player might not brethe when the use wants it to.

    I don't know what to do!!

    That's why I started this thread.

    -Chris

  9. #9

    Re: Loops and such

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    Well, I really don't know what to do!!
    If I loop the sample, that's bad, if I have the sample just end out of nowhere, that's bad, and if I have the clarinetest staggar brethe for three minuets that's bad 'cause the player might not brethe when the use wants it to.

    I don't know what to do!!

    That's why I started this thread.

    -Chris
    This shouldn't be such a big problem - there is no need to have three minute long sustains really! If the person playing the alto clarinet can hold notes for a 'normal' amount of time, then that is generally sufficient. After all, writing excessively long sustains for your winds is usually asking for trouble!

    I really look forward to seeing what you come up with, especially since sampled alto clarinets aren't exactly easy to come by.

  10. #10

    Re: Loops and such

    Offer both.
    It'll be the same patches.
    It just means you end up with twice the material on your hard disk - looped and unlooped. Purists can opt for unlooped, the rest can play notes for three days if they want

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