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Topic: expensive silence

  1. #1

    expensive silence

    Or: "how to create a 36GB sample library"

    I Found this in an expensive library today.
    It´s a solo trumpet.
    - why is it stereo?
    - why did they waste so much of the sound?
    - what is this extra second after the sound?

    For everyone who counts the quality of samples in mb/$


    Chris Hein

  2. #2

    Re: expensive silence

    One possible reason for each of the above:

    In stereo to give some room sound and spatial perspective.

    So long - do you mean why not just loop it? It sounds better (more natural) played full length

    Silence at the end is the one Iwould agree with you on - but it may be low-level artifacts, or just leaving room for a reverb tail?
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  3. #3

    Re: expensive silence

    The orange part is the loop.
    That means you won´t here anything of the part after the loop.
    Nearly half of the sample is unused.

    The whole library is like that.
    The sound is great, but it could be done in about 2/3 of the GB.

    I think someone was too lazy to cut the samples correctly
    or thought it´s cool to have a lot of GB.

    Chris Hein

  4. #4

    Re: expensive silence

    What library is this anyway?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: expensive silence

    I cannot see the illustration...there is some error with it.

    However, from what is being described, I would rather have the entire sample than have it tightly edited. That way, I can go back in and alter loop points if I don't like the sound, etc. There are many cases where I have wished a library wasn't so tightly edited as an end user. So I think there are two sides to this.

    I also don't mind a solo stereo library. In general I prefer this. I might use only one channel in a larger orchestration where I want a more pinpoint image, but would use the stereo version if I wanted a more intimate, more spread image from the instrument. I can always use less than is provided. It is impossible to use material which is not provided.

    Does anyone really equate size to quality? I am interested only in the end result, and I pay more attention to the layout, depth of velocity/articulation coverage, etc., than the raw size.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: expensive silence

    Which library is it that we are discussing? I think it is much more helpful to just talk about the specific case than to speak in generalities. Perhaps the author of the library could comment if we knew what we were discussing here.

  7. #7

    Re: expensive silence

    OK, I don´t want to blame someone, thats why I don´t mention the library.
    But if you have kontakt2 you´ll find it. ;-)

    I hear a lot of people saying: "Wow, so much GB, this library must be good."
    The end result is what you here when you have spend the money already.
    Don´t get me wrong, this library sounds great.
    But espacially these guys are very proud of having soo much GB.

    I like dry, mono samples with a perfect loop after 3-5sec.
    That way I get most out of my computer.
    I like to decide myself how much room a sample should have.
    I have enough room in my studio and it sounds strange to me
    when the hornplayer and the violins sound from different concerthalls.

    Here is a direct link to the screenshot:

    Chris Hein

  8. #8

    Re: expensive silence

    As a general rule of thumb I find all library developers to be culprits in the extra second or more of silence at the end of the samples. They will tell you that it's to make sure that the whole reverb trail is preserved, I usually counter with "but all I can hear there is the noise floor!"

    Why do they do this?

    non-cynical view: because ram and hard drive space is cheap, and it's best to err on the long side of the sample rather than to risk being overly space conscious and accidentally cut some reverb tails.

    cynical view: because a 20gig library is bound to get more attention than a 2 gig one. Something like VSL can justify its huge price tag by being so huge.

    When I was streaming less, and loading into RAM more, I would be able to optimize Giga libraries by at least 1/3. So an 80meg instrument could fit into about 50megs of RAM just by chopping off the dead space at the tail.

    I don't think that developers are a malicious bunch, but they know very well that when it comes to selling their products, bigger is better!
    Music Composition for Feature Films, Television and Interactive Entertainment

  9. #9

    Re: expensive silence

    - why is it stereo?

    You get the room acoustics better represented in stereo

    - why did they waste so much of the sound?

    I don't think they have. It looks like they made a decision to loop the sound, in order to give you infinite note sustain.

    The fact that they left in the section after the loop is great, because it means you're able to use the natural length note if you'd prefer. All you have to do is turn the loop off and you have the full note as originally played.

    - what is this extra second after the sound?

    Even though on the screenshot it looks like the sound has decayed to silence after a quarter second, if you crank up the volume you can probably hear reverb tail for 1/2 to 3/4 seconds. They probably made a blanket decision for all samples that guaranteed that they weren't going to chop off any room sound.

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