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Topic: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

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  1. #1

    I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    First off, let me say NS is invaluable as far as getting public opinions on sample libraries. It's guided me to make some really solid purchases, and I thank everyone who's ever given me advice.

    What I don't like lately is clearly biased opinions from either resellers or people in some way affiliated with developers. The problem here is that while some of us know who they are, many other people don't know that you happen to sell Such-and-Such Strings, or what have you. And when these affiliates beam about the product that they resell or are somehow involved in a business sense, they could likely be giving a false representation of said product to unaware readers.

    Am I the only one who has an issue with this? Am I overreacting? It would be nice if the forum had a way to identify these affiliates, so everyone is clear on who they're talking to. Like instead of a star by their name, a dollar sign or something similar.

    As a result of the above, I'm a bit more wary when reading people's positive comments on libraries, because I'm not entirely clear on their involvement with the developer, if any.

    Thanks for listening..
    Sam Hulick
    Composer
    http://www.samhulick.com/

  2. #2

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    Sam,

    I think most are pretty open about their connections to any certain developers. I don't think anyone is in the dark that I work with Frank and have been friends with others (Gary, Peter, Garth) for a while. But I agree with you that personal opinions and biases can form from these relationships when posting.

    I praised a 'such-and-such string library' earlier today, I'm wondering if I'm part of your post? If so, please know I paid full price for said library, and have never spoken to said developer for more than two emails worth to tell him how good it was. If that relationship changes in the future, as it might, then I guess you could look back on those opinions as being bias - but as of this minute they are not.

    On that note, I think you have the best posts of any person here at NS, they're deep, thoughtful, inspirational. They're amazing! Just don't tell everyone we're cousins, it might taint the validity of my praising. Just messin' with ya Sam, I wanted my 1800th post this afternoon.
    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

  3. #3
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    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    I think you are over reacting but I am not a developer of some sound library so my opinion here could mean dung
    There are tons of new people that join this forum for a chat and to reply and say there opinion on such and such said sounds. Then there are tons of people who have been here a long A** time and say there opinion too on such and such sounds, even if there are bias or not shouldn't we allow everyone to have there say no matter what there opinion is? Even if that person is a said developer or works with that sound library? The only opinion that matters truly is your own, until you test out the such and such sounds that is what will matter, what you think. But maybe a dollar sign would be cool idea to point out those people that work for and with developers of the such and such sounds Nothing on these forums about such and such sounds effects me in the least, I need to hear demos of the such and such sounds before I can make any decision or opion about them.
    Remember the Ninja Dude
    All I can Say is...HA!...HA!...HAAAAAAA!!!!!

  4. #4

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    I am both, developer and client. What kind of star should I get?
    ;-)

    Chris Hein

  5. #5

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lastufka
    On that note, I think you have the best posts of any person here at NS, they're deep, thoughtful, inspirational. They're amazing!
    Don't listen to Alan. He's secretly affiliated with my mere existence.

    Alan, my post was not targetted at you or anyone else in particular. Just a general thought on goings-on lately. And I'm not saying the opinions of affiliates/resellers don't matter, but just that their objectivity is questionable. If I were a reseller, of course I'd want business, but I'd try to only sell sample libs that I really loved, so when I post positively about them, I can say that I chose to sell this product because I think it's incredible, and my review is not trying to garner business. If I had to sell products I didn't like, I guess I just wouldn't talk about them that much.

    wh-CHING!
    Sam Hulick
    Composer
    http://www.samhulick.com/

  6. #6

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    Speaking for myself:


    1. I'm a developer and I don't have any stars by my name. But it's OK, I have broad shoulders.

    2. Unless we have an ad running for Kirk or someone, I normally only post about his library when/if someone makes a comment that's either not true or grossly unfair or asks a question. And then, my name is always at the bottom of what I write.

    3. Sometimes it's difficult not to respond and defend, especially after you've invested a lot of your time, money and effort in bringing a library to market. It is oh so easy to criticize. I helped beta test both the Vienna First and Pro Editions. This is daunting work, especially under short deadlines. But you never really understand what it's like bringing an orchestral library to market until you've done it. And then you see the myriad issues that are beyond recording and editing.

    4. But when it comes to defending the sound of a library, I don't think you can really do that. Even before KH, with VSL being compared to QLSO, I always said that beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

    What people want is "one library to rule them all." Would that were possible! What people also want is assurance that they made the right buying decision because money is tight, and let's face it, full orchestral libraries on the caliber of VSL, QLSO, SI and KH are expensive, even if it's an edition under $1000. In Greensboro, NC, a $1000 is one month's rent on a very nice 3 bedroom townhome!

    And so I understand when people defend "their" favorite library to the death. But it doesn't help much when inaccurate statements are made. When such statements are made, developers have to respond to protect their investment which is nearly always in the five - six figure range. That's a lot of rent!
    Peter L. Alexander
    www.professionalorchestration.com
    www.alexanderpublishing.com
    Learn it right the first time.

  7. #7

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    Quote Originally Posted by peter269
    Speaking for myself:

    2. Unless we have an ad running for Kirk or someone, I normally only post about his library when/if someone makes a comment that's either not true or grossly unfair or asks a question. And then, my name is always at the bottom of what I write.
    Here's where the problem arises. Your name does not necessarily show your affiliation with Kirk Hunter. In fact, during my long absence from NS, I came back, and had no idea you were at all connected with KH libraries. Newbies, of course, who don't even know who you are, will also be unclear on this. If we visit truespec.com, then we can see you sell KH products, and it becomes more obvious. But often times people don't bother to visit the URLs in signatures. And I'm not saying your defenses of the products you sell aren't warranted or accurate. Just pointing out that not all resellers/affiliates are going to be dead honest about the products they sell (e.g. "it's good, but the legato is poorly done").

    And another point brought up, is that all you have to do is listen to the demos yourself and make your own judgments. This isn't always true. I HAVE purchased libraries that sounded great, and then been disappointed with the programming. Or thought to myself, "Why the heck did they sample the performance phrase like this? I can't use this." There's an aspect of usability and performance that you just can't get across over the net. You really have to be sitting at the keyboard with a demo sample to play around with. Granted, more and more developers (Project SAM, KH, a few others) are releasing demo samples for free, which is great. It without a doubt influences my purchasing decision positively.
    Sam Hulick
    Composer
    http://www.samhulick.com/

  8. #8

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    Quote Originally Posted by MDesigner
    Here's where the problem arises. Your name does not necessarily show your affiliation with Kirk Hunter. In fact, during my long absence from NS, I came back, and had no idea you were at all connected with KH libraries. Newbies, of course, who don't even know who you are, will also be unclear on this. If we visit truespec.com, then we can see you sell KH products, and it becomes more obvious. But often times people don't bother to visit the URLs in signatures.
    See Avatars for all producers of Bela D Media. That covers that.

    I understand how competitive this industry can be and I have learned that of the course of last two years. However, I am not so far removed from being a user. I own almost every title out there - and that's via my credit card (don't tell the wife).

    As a buyer, I do read reviews and opinions but do not take them to heart. It's is the demos (often by users) that sell me and the price. If I have a need for a particular sound in my work and I can afford to make the purchase... I do.

    This VS that? That is always the hardest part for any buyer. Whether it is a sample library or a new car. Too many options and choices make your head spin but again, for me, if the need is there and the price is right my credit card takes yet another hit. (I asked you NOT to tell the wife man!)

    Hmm? Sorry Sam. I think I went OT here.
    Bela D Media | www.BelaDMedia.com

  9. #9

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    Sam makes some good points. Demos, though helpful, often don't tell the whole story. And if I see enough people praising some library, I may consider buying it.

    It seems to me that's the main purpose of this site, or at least this particular board, to compare notes on soft synths or sample libraries.

    Obviously, Bela D is completely clear with their avatar. But there are others, Peter included, who I could see confusion arrising from, although I've never seen anything deceptive from Peter.

    In fact, I have to point out that Peter seems to me like a straight up guy not trying to decieve anyone, and I bought my VSL First Edition from him and he was completely cool to deal with. But it would still be good if all developers and distributors had avatars or something.

    - Mike Greene

  10. #10

    Re: I have a problem with opinions on NS lately

    more reason to trust your own ears

    and to find people's ears you trust.

    I dont comment on libraries much anymore. Its a waste of time since they're ALMOST all good and each caters to specific needs/sounds better than others. As you could see in that whispers thread. I didnt realyl comment on which one was going to be "better".

    I've worked with quite a few developesr on here at one point or another. I am currently not working with any. If I say I love VSL, does that make me biased?

    If I say I hate alot of VRsounds demos, does that make me biased towards other libs because I didnt work with VRsounds? Or because, most of the demos suck, and that the tenor sax I cought took a lot of work reprogramming to get to be playable?

    if I comment on a vocal or string lib that I dont like, because of the recorded sound? How are you going to be able to tell whether I am biased or not? Does my opinion matter more/less because I've worked on other string and vocal libs? Who's to say I like the ones I've worked on?

    I understand your concerns about not knowing tho. I've put myself in a precarious position by working with alot of different developers. Atleast I know I dont try to, or allow myself to have general phone conversations and lots of casual friendly banter with them anymore. I feel it keeps me distant enough to be objective. Except of course when you get me around Sharmy's LANS Hangs and add beer to the mix...or Vincent from SAM!

    Basically figure the people out as you go, and go with that. It really doesnt matter who it is that you trust, its your choice, as all of this should be.

    We all do have personal issues tho, if you're worried, I'd be afraid of the freindships formed and destroyed as well as people employed or associated to a particular company. This tends to strangle the concept of having open minds and ears, and is usually why discusions about libraries deteriate into cheap shots back and forth

    god I'm such a pessimist on this board lately...and always in your threads Sam...wahts up with that?



    Also, I do admit, that my "real world" viewpoints are a little skewed on some of the libs, as I didnt have to purchase all of them. That definitly makes any comment from me saying "its worth the money" pretty worthless if I didnt buy the lib...
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