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Topic: Proven? It's Not a Choice

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  1. #1

    Proven? It's Not a Choice

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    gene discovered. Further proof that sexual orientation is not a choice:

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/cell.php
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    Robert Gregory Browne
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    http://www.robertgregorybrowne.com

  2. #2

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    Of course I believe it's much more deep-rooted than a "lifestyle choice."

    But these are fruity flies, not fruity people, and I have a feeling that an insect's sexuality is just a tiny bit simpler. To me this doesn't prove that there's a genetic link in people. I think there is in most cases, but this doesn't prove it.

  3. #3

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    Wow. I think Rob and I agree on something (so far). It's not a choice. That study doesn't prove it, but I don't think it's a choice anyway, even though there may still be a few confused people out there. I just don't think someone would wake up one day and choose to be gay. Could happen, but I don't think so. Which is why I don't think its a "sin" to be gay. I don't want the fruit flies in the study you pointed out getting married in my church though.
    "They get what they vote for." PaulR

  4. #4

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    You and I agree on that too, Dan. No question.

    But a fruit fly model doesn't necessarily apply to humans.

    Very few people would choose to suffer all the pain gay people have to go through - with their families and in society - just for the hell of it. As I said, it's very deep-rooted.

    There are bound to be some exceptions, of course, especially with women for some reason. I have a cousin who was gay for years and years. She broke up with her girlfriend, lost a lot of weight, and all of a sudden started dating men.

    But I don't believe that's the way it usually is.

  5. #5

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    You and I agree on that too, Dan. No question.

    But a fruit fly model doesn't necessarily apply to humans.

    Very few people would choose to suffer all the pain gay people have to go through - with their families and in society - just for the hell of it. As I said, it's very deep-rooted.

    There are bound to be some exceptions, of course, especially with women for some reason. I have a cousin who was gay for years and years. She broke up with her girlfriend, lost a lot of weight, and all of a sudden started dating men.

    But I don't believe that's the way it usually is.
    Agreed. The fruit (he he) fly model doesn't necessarily apply to humans. Also, and here is where we may diverge in opinion, I think that if many (not all do) gays would not define themselves what seems to be only by their sexuality, they would have an easier time of it. I feel sorry for anyone who is having a hard time for whatever reasons, as long as they are a decent human being, but I don't define myself as "Dan, a heterosexual male." Sure, that's exactly what I am. But I'm not planning on organizing any marches for myself, because I love women. Nor do I think anybody else should really care that I love women. Nor do I need to put a bumper sticker on my car, a shirt, or make a symbol to represent my sexuality. I'm just trying to say that it shouldn't matter if you're gay or not (unless you expect to be married in my church, then it matters to me, but that's not the topic here.), but if you're going to design your whole life around it, and yell it from the top of building, then you're asking for negative attention. Just like if I showed up at work one day, and yelled "I love women, I love them oh so much, etc. etc.". I would soon be out of a job.
    "They get what they vote for." PaulR

  6. #6

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    Well, I agree with all of that except what I suspect could be a comment about gay marriage; I find being against it an indefensible position, since it's nobody's business and they're entitled to the same tax disadvantages heterosexual couples are entitled to.

    But I also think it's retarded when gay men act like caricatures. I don't run around going, "Hey baby, look at how my gold chains hang in my chest hairs" - you know, the hetero equivalent. And I've always thought the gay tennis tournament they have once a year where I play was ludicrous. What does being gay have to do with smacking fuzzy balls?

    On the other hand, they're a minority, and that's why they scream about it on the rooftop. And if they slapped each other on the butt "ooh, good shot" in a regular tennis tournament...well, it would be a little different.

    What really bothers me is how gay marriage was used as a political tool in the last election. It's a false issue that was hyped up and exploited by the Carl Roves, and that's really ugly.

  7. #7

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    I heard a story from a woman who had decided that she was gay. It seemed that her coolest friends were gay. She was artistic, and it seemed like an artistic thing to be. She had previously had some dates with guys and had been burned.

    So she does the whole coming out thing. She tells her parents. She goes through it all. Then she enters a gay relationship. In the end she couldn't go through with it. They broke up. She went with another woman. Same deal. After a couple of years, she realized that she wasn't gay at all. She had just been confused about her identity, and had resented the men that she had gone out with.

    In this case she chose to be gay. But it didn't take. So she chose not to be gay. She said it was almost harder to tell people, "oops, I was wrong about the gay thing" than it was to tell them she was gay in the first place.

    This is only one story. But it kind of shows that we humans are complex beings. We are who we are. And we make choices. Sometimes the choices betray who we are. Sometimes they betray those around us. And sometimes our choices click.

    Anyone can choose to act gay, or not act gay. I just don't know that people can choose who they are deep inside.

    -JF

  8. #8

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    Well, I agree with all of that except what I suspect could be a comment about gay marriage; I find being against it an indefensible position, since it's nobody's business and they're entitled to the same tax disadvantages heterosexual couples are entitled to.

    But I also think it's retarded when gay men act like caricatures. I don't run around going, "Hey baby, look at how my gold chains hang in my chest hairs" - you know, the hetero equivalent. And I've always thought the gay tennis tournament they have once a year where I play was ludicrous. What does being gay have to do with smacking fuzzy balls?

    On the other hand, they're a minority, and that's why they scream about it on the rooftop. And if they slapped each other on the butt "ooh, good shot" in a regular tennis tournament...well, it would be a little different.

    What really bothers me is how gay marriage was used as a political tool in the last election. It's a false issue that was hyped up and exploited by the Carl Roves, and that's really ugly.
    Sure. That's fine. If people want to legally bind themselves in order to receive benefits that other people get. Fine. No problems here. Just don't call it marriage, and just don't expect to get it done in my church. Actually, they will call it what they want, so scrap that first part, but just don't expect to get it done in my church. I already said that I don't think it's a sin to be gay. That said... to me (and so far, my church, but we'll see), marriage is a religious thing between a man and a woman. It's the whole Adam and Eve versus Adam and Steve thing.

    And Nick...I agree. I am annoyed by gay men who act like that. They have the right to act that way, and I have the right to let them know that they annoy the piss out of me. Like I said, I just don't see how it benefits some of them to advertise their sexuality so blatantly. It doesn't help their situation any. And did I mention that it is annoying?

    Oh well...I have better things to worry about. I hope. I'm still trying to figure out how a gorilla can use a keyboard and start a magazine!
    "They get what they vote for." PaulR

  9. #9

    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    I've always thought the gay tennis tournament they have once a year where I play was ludicrous. What does being gay have to do with smacking fuzzy balls?
    Must....resist...."smacking fuzzy balls"....jokes.
    I remain solely responsible for the content of my messages, and agree to indemnify and hold harmless northern sound source, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of my message(s). Rock on.

  10. #10
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    Re: Proven? It's Not a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    What does being gay have to do with smacking fuzzy balls?
    Boom Boom! It's the way ya tell 'em!


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