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Topic: My First Dumb Question

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Question My First Dumb Question

    I've only had K2 for a week now and I've never used Kontakt before, so this will hopefully be an easy question for some of you more senior users of Kontakt. When adding a MIDI CC as a modulator, on the left side of the modulation router there are two numeric fields side by side, just to left of the bipolar intensity slider. The first one sets the CC number itself, but what does the second one control? It seems to accept values from minus 1 to plus 100. There doesn't seem to be anything in the manual about this parameter. What is it?
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: My First Dumb Question

    Hey Guys,

    I think I may have stumbled on a clue as to what parameter X does. I need more twiddling time to fully characterize it but, it seems to have something to do with internal controller initialization. Such as when X = 100, the CC is initialized to max and when X = 0, the CC is initialized to min, etc. Perhaps the -1 value is a special token used to mean something like initialize to 'last known' or some kind of default value.

    I'll post again if and when I get it nailed down
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  3. #3
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Post Re: My First Dumb Question

    Hi guys, regarding the mysterious parameter X (assuming anyone cares):

    Here’s how I think it’s SUPPOSED to work. For each group using a given MIDI controller, ‘CCn’, apparently K2 maintains an internal variable ‘ccn’ to represent the last known value of CCn. The modulation behavior is then governed by the value of ccn which is updated each time a new MIDI value for CCn is received. However, when an instrument is first loaded and played (before any MIDI input is received for CCn), ccn has to be initialized to ‘something’. That ‘something’ is a value proportional to the setting of X. Something like:

    ccn = X/100 * 127

    So for example, if X is set to 50 (which probably means 50%), ccn will be initialized to 63 or 64.

    Now, the reason I say that this is how it’s SUPPOSED to work, is that I haven’t been able to obtain perfectly consistent behavior under all conditions. In experimenting with various combinations (such as using the same CC to control several parameters within the same group and/or using the same CC to control several groups, each with different initialization values), I have been able to cause some rather inconsistent behavior. Also, the token value of X = -1 is still shrouded in mystery. Perhaps it’s intended to produce some kind of default behavior. However, I cannot get the value –1 to ‘stick’. If I change X to –1, as soon as do anything (like close and reopen the modulation router or save the file), the value of X is reset to 0. However, I do have some key-switched instruments that I converted from .gig files, and, these have some CC modulators that have X set to –1. However, once they are changed to any number other than –1 and the file is resaved, I can never get them changed back to X = -1. It was this setting of X = -1, produced by the translator, that got me into all this in the first place and I still don’t know what it means.

    It could very well be that besides a lack of documentation for the mysterious parameter X, there might be some bugs in the implementation. I sent a query about parameter X to NI’s technical support group several days ago but so far no response.
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  4. #4

    Re: My First Dumb Question

    Big Bob,
    I can't help, but hopefully someone will join in here and shed some light,
    I feel bad that nobody has helped you yet.

    dpDan

  5. #5

    Re: My First Dumb Question

    We're working on it Dan.
    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

  6. #6

    Re: My First Dumb Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bob
    Here’s how I think it’s SUPPOSED to work. For each group using a given MIDI controller, ‘CCn’, apparently K2 maintains an internal variable ‘ccn’ to represent the last known value of CCn. The modulation behavior is then governed by the value of ccn which is updated each time a new MIDI value for CCn is received. However, when an instrument is first loaded and played (before any MIDI input is received for CCn), ccn has to be initialized to ‘something’. That ‘something’ is a value proportional to the setting of X.
    Thats my understanding of it. It actually mentions somwhere in the manual that you can program a cc to retain a value and not drop back to zero every time.

    Very handy for expression and cc1 controlled instruments. (GPO for e.g.)
    ---------------------------
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    www.sca-soundstudios.com
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Smile Re: My First Dumb Question

    Hi Scott,

    Thanks for the input:
    Thats my understanding of it. It actually mentions somwhere in the manual that you can program a cc to retain a value and not drop back to zero every time.
    If you ever come across it again in the manual, please send me an Email with the page. I'd like to flag it! I sure can't find anything like that in my manual. Maybe it was a manual prior to the K2 manual?

    Also, do you remember anything about what the mysterious token value of -1 is supposed to do and how to get it to 'stick' when you want to use it?
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Post Re: My First Dumb Question

    Finally heard from NI's tech support. They only confirmed what we had already concluded, namely that parameter X is used to provide an initial value to the CC. However, they offered no explanation of what the -1 value is used for. I have re-queried them on this and if they respond, I'll post what they say.

    If any of you know what this -1 value is supposed to do, please enlighten me.
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  9. #9

    Re: My First Dumb Question

    Hi Big Bob,

    I've had the same question along with many, many others since I Got K2. I don't have an answer but I sure have a lot of questions.

    The thing that threw me the most is what they call "Modulation". In my old world modulation was basicaly 1 (or more) freq. working on another freq. and it took me a long time to see that they were thinking differently (all envelopes, volume, velocity or otherwise are concidered modulation sources).

    I've seen the (-1) useualy with cc11 associated with EWQL-Gold. Don't have a clue what it means. I do know that cc11 works with Gold but there seems to be no "knob-slider" associated with it in K2. Maybe this a "hidden modulation source", don't know???

    I hope you can enlighten us Bob.

    T. S.

  10. #10

    Re: My First Dumb Question

    Ha! Found it, Bob. It's in the Readme.txt file under the heading "3. Important Notes." To wit:

    "- For External Modulators, the value between the source and the fader sets the default value of that modulator."

    But I couldn't find any mention of a -1 value.

    Kind regards.

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