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Topic: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

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  1. #1

    Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Good morning all, perhaps you can help me with a question: I'm trying to work on a large orchestral cue, and Finale/GPO is taking too much CPU. So I thought I'd save the file as a midi, then import it into Sonar 4 (Producer). But I'm using more than 16 GPO instruments! For GPO this is no problem, but Sonar only allows 16 midi tracks, it appears... is this correct (and why on earth is it thus?). Any helpful ideas?

    Thanks,
    Steve M
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  2. #2

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    I don't think this is correct. I can not believe it is correct. It is more likely that it allows 16 channels per VST instrument. You can use the same channel numbers with different VSTi's.

  3. #3

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Steve,
    SONAR allows unlimited tracks, but the long-neglected Staff View will display only 16 (any 16) at a time. If you try to select more than 16, it displays the first 16 you select. A bit of a pain. I end up creating multiple Staff view windows (thanks to the "Lock" feature) if necessary. Not the best, but it works.

    An alternative to GPO Studio is to use SONAR instead, and use good old Midi Yoke to connect Finale to SONAR (I'm assuming you can do this, I do it with Sibelius). You can drive up to 16 full players (in theory), but you get the added bonus of being able to load and drive other synths and effects in SONAR as well, not just GPO as is the case with GPO Studio.
    Bill

  4. #4
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Quote Originally Posted by billp
    Steve,
    SONAR allows unlimited tracks, but the long-neglected Staff View will display only 16 (any 16) at a time. If you try to select more than 16, it displays the first 16 you select. A bit of a pain. I end up creating multiple Staff view windows (thanks to the "Lock" feature) if necessary. Not the best, but it works.

    An alternative to GPO Studio is to use SONAR instead, and use good old Midi Yoke to connect Finale to SONAR (I'm assuming you can do this, I do it with Sibelius). You can drive up to 16 full players (in theory), but you get the added bonus of being able to load and drive other synths and effects in SONAR as well, not just GPO as is the case with GPO Studio.

    Well, with Sonar I miss the point of GPO Studio. The VST would seem the best bet. With all 8 players available, there you are with 64 instruments. Probably enough for most uses.

    Richard

  5. #5

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Quote Originally Posted by rwayland
    Well, with Sonar I miss the point of GPO Studio.
    Richard,

    Yep. Agree that it's best to work entirely inside of SONAR if possible.

    I think Steve likes to work from Finale rather than from the crummy Staff View in SONAR. So I proposed the Finale==>Midi Yoke==>SONAR option. This technique works with Sib and with Overture, so probably with Finale as well.

    Once you've finished composing in Finale (and driving SONAR), it's pretty easy to move the project as midi to SONAR since you already have the tracks set up and assigned to the synths. There's a trick or two to accomplish this, but it works.

    The main drawback is the lack of dynamics (mod and velocity), which are tedious to enter manually as midi. It's best either to encode this in the first place in the notation program or to replay each line and record into SONAR, which gives superior results. In either case, SONAR is set up to match the score.

    If you want to bring the Finale midi into the existing SONAR project, you must load the project in SONAR, then open the midi file in SONAR as a temporary second project, copy and paste the midi into the main project. You must do this in order to capture the tempo changes. You cannot simply import the midi into the existing project, because the tempos in the midi file will be ignored in that case.
    Bill

  6. #6

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Thanks, Bill, and everyone else... I think I may have solved the problem by using GPO twice (=16 tracks) as DXT, and then twice (=16 tracks) as VST. Probably not the most comprehensive solution, but it's working.

    Now, however, I'm discovering the truth of what Bill wrote, viz: I don't like adding dynamics in Sonar (kinda cumbersome, at least for Finale-trained ole me). Fortunately, I do most of these in Finale with Human Playback (which I find pretty satisfactory on the whole, especially if I take the time to fiddle with it). But when I imported to Sonar, I noticed my tempi changes didn't make the jump. Oh well.

    I suspect all of this will become moot in the next few years, as Finale (and other programs) keep growing in terms of the options they offer. The dream, as always, is a full-on, notation-sequencing program. What a dream!

    When I get this cue done, in the next week or so, I'm going to try to post it, so I can get feedback from all these incredibly helpful people on this forum. Thanks, all.

    Steve Main
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  7. #7

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain
    But when I imported to Sonar, I noticed my tempi changes didn't make the jump.
    Steve,
    I don't know if you mean "imported" literally, but if you did, that's the reason the tempo changes didn't make it. "Importing" to an existing project brings in the midi events, but not the tempo changes.

    You have to "Open" the midi in SONAR.
    Bill

  8. #8

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Steve,
    Wait now.

    But I'm using more than 16 GPO instruments
    I think I understand the confusion now about the 16-channel limit.

    These are midi channels.

    Each GPO player can receive on midi channels 1-16. Each set of 16 is independent for each player instance.

    When you point a SONAR midi track at a single player instance, you can send to any of the 16 channels for a player. You set each slot in a player to receive on a channel.

    So, for the simple example, you can have SONAR midi tracks 1-8 pointing to GPO Player 1, using channels 1-8, and midi tracks 8-16 pointing to GPO Player 2, using channels 1-8, midi tracks 17-24 pointing to GPO Player 3 on channels 1-8 and so on...

    It's 16 channels per player that can be "reused" for each player. You really only need 8 for the Kontakt player, but you get the point.
    Bill

  9. #9

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    [Loud sound of Steve slapping his forehead...]

    Bill, thanks SO MUCH for throwing a little light on this stuff... I'm going to immediately start working this out in Sonar based on what you've said. I sure thought I was doing something wrong... anyway, it's great to have your suggestions (and from a neighbor in the East Bay, just across the water... even better) .

    Thanks
    Steve
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  10. #10

    Re: Question re GPO and Sonar 4

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain
    The dream, as always, is a full-on, notation-sequencing program. What a dream!Steve Main
    If you haven't already seen:

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=36241

    Your dream (and alot of people's dream) is about to come true!

    Good luck!

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