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Topic: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

  1. #1

    Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    I was cleaning my junk email box and came across the Tascam Giga 3.1 update letter, which I obviously hadn't read yet. I usually assume if its worth hearing about, I probably will on one or another of the forums. I hadn't heard about this tho:

    "TASCAM and Sonic Implants collaborated on several features that made their way into the new GigaStudio 3.1 update, including the Dynamic Expression Filter (DEF) and the Portamento Reshaping Filter (PRF). These are each phase-corrected, 7th order morphing filters that create musical performance techniques from a standard MIDI controller, and are only available from TASCAM GigaStudio 3.1.

    The Dynamic Expression Filter employs this filter technology to fill in the shades between sampled dynamic crossfades. For example, rather than just sampling mezzo forte horns and forte horns and then fading from one to another, the DEF filter morphs from one sample to another to avoid the realism and phase problems introduced by simple crossfades. Not only does this add extra realism to instrument samples – especially solo instruments – but it cuts down on the polyphony requirements of large sampled libraries."

    So... Has anyone applied DEF to a VSL performance instrument yet? I'd like to know if this really can improve the "phasiness" of the mod x-faded legato clarinet for example?

    Or is the tech somehow SI exclusive? I guess I'm a bit fuzzy, and if there is a buzz I've missed it, but this sounds like it should be something to be excited over. I want to be, but it seems like no one else is....... so I feel silly jumping around like this. I'll stop.

    Heard about something like this with the Garritan violin in an older thread, and I remember thinking how awsome it would be when that tech could be applied to other instruments, and here some of it is! But I have no idea how I would go about implementing it.

    Basically, I got no clue. Would someone who does elaborate a bit?

  2. #2

    Smile Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    Hello Mike!

    The new features are really quite cool!

    If you want to see a snippet of them being shown on the summer namm video at http://sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2295 Jason was a bit nervous as he wasn't expecting to be on video but near the end there is a quick demo of DEF and PRF

    The features are not SI exclusive

    However the profiles were designed specificly with our source data so results with other instruments may vary. I have heard in some cases with other instruments it works really well and others not as well as with our library. Also the transitional legato mode that we use in our Woodwinds Library is open format but you need to use specific source to implement it. So if developers are planning to use it they must record transitions. As of now we are the only ones to use that feature yet as far as I know.

    I hope this info is helpful,

    Best Regards,
    Al J.
    Sonic Implants

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    If you download the 3.1 update, and read the release notes, you can figure out the programming. As Al said, you have to record for it in some cases, in others, you can retroactively program. Libraries like VSL, for instance, have a great number of recorded articulations which can be re-programmed in all kinds of excellent ways in Giga 3.1.

    If you have any second generation Giga libraries that use the various "performance" applets to alter the MIDI stream, most of those can be reprogrammed to natively work in GS-3, many times with enhanced function. GOS is a good example of such a library, as is the Sonic Implants Symphonic Strings or the Symphonic Brass. If you dig in and just try a few basics, you can get the hang of it, and construct some very cool new instruments from the basic materials there.

    So, it's just a matter of examining what is available to you in articulations, looking at the mapping possibilities, and then designing how you want those features and recordings to interact.

    If you are recording from scratch, you can basically write your own ticket and handle legato/transition issues in pretty much any way that has ever been done to date, of course. The sky's the limit there. You just need to sit down and design the sessions according to what you need, and be sure to get it.

    It's a good idea to just do a note or two of an instrument, or even just a mockup of a different instrument--whatever you can easily put your hands on and play--to debug the mapping plan before getting someone in for a session.

  4. #4

    Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    I believe that there is a DEF .art file update for the SI demonstration con sordino string patches that came as part of the GS 3 demo content -- that will allow you to actually demo and play with this functionality first hand.

    Check the 'freebies and downloads' part of the user's section at tascamgiga.com...

    Haven't downloaded this trial update yet, but it is on my list of things to do...

  5. #5

    Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    Hi Al! Hope yer doing good man, I tell ya the stuff SI's been doing is plain awsome, I'll bet yer having some fun Appreciate the video link, now I want those halls and jeeez that library is impressive. I need it! But first I need another machine at least, I'm maxed. So one thing at a time... but I will have it!

    Thanks for the info Bruce, I haven't updated to 3.1 yet (I have everything working so well now, I hate to rock a sturdy boat, ya know?) but I knew I would eventually do it, so I guess tonight's the night! I'll check out the release notes for programming info, and see where that takes me. I certainly don't mind long hours of work, as long as its productive, but I've been daunted by programming elements since the 2.5 GS editor and haven't tried the new one yet except for updating some .art files. The only sampling I've done was with 3 trombone players at UNT in a concert hall a few years back, and I sent those recordings to Thomas who was sooo kind to program them for me. Gotta say, despite the mediocre playing in places and lots of other things I did wrong for a first time sample session, I'm still using these bones and they really sound kick@ss in gigapulse.

    I've got the original SISS package for GS2.5, but other than making a few patches that utilize key or mod switching to combine instruments I have done very little editing to speak of. Can the DEF stuff work on the con sordino strings that I'm already using, for example, or must it be from the 24bit 3.0 version of SISS?

    Before I ask too many more questions, I think I'll go download the update now, read the info and see what kind of trouble I can get into. I may be daunted, but this sort of thing is too necessary to let that get in the way. Will let ya know how it goes, Thanks!

  6. #6

    Smile Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGraybill
    I've got the original SISS package for GS2.5, but other than making a few patches that utilize key or mod switching to combine instruments I have done very little editing to speak of. Can the DEF stuff work on the con sordino strings that I'm already using, for example, or must it be from the 24bit 3.0 version of SISS?

    It has been nothing short of awesome to be here, and I am having a TON of fun!

    But to answer your question, I belive that in order to apply the profiles included in GS 3.1 you need to using a 24bit instrument. Though when you purchased GS 3 it came with a SI con sordino ensemble patch that you should be able to apply the DEF profile to.

    FYI using DEF with Brass is amazing!

    Best regards,
    Al J.
    Sonic Implants

  7. #7

    Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    Al - DEF with the SI sordino patch sounds really great !

    I'll have to redo some of my mockups ;-)

  8. #8

    Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    Those sordinos are really nice with DEF! Part of the template now. I sorta underestimated what all was included on these discs. I checked out some of it, and Larry's drums rock of course, but mostly I expected limited demo patches. There's alot more there than I thought, pretty cool.

    Yup, the instrument must be 24bit. Other than the demo samples, everything I use is 16bit, so I guess this won't be much of a bonus for the time being. Is there any possibility this will be capable of being used on 16bit libs in the future? I know 24 is the way everything's heading, but this tool could bring wonderful possibilities to so many libraries that are currently out, most all of which are 16bit. GOS, SAM, VSL 1st Ed, etc. From what I've seen, I honestly think I'd be trying it out on everything, especially solo instruments, since it'd be the first time we could modulate through different recordings without hearing two of that instrument. Getting rid of that phasiness would be an awsome improvement sonically.

    Is there a particular reason its a 24bit only tool? Thanks again for the info.


  9. #9

    Smile Re: Tascam/SonicImplants DEF and PRF?

    Hi Mike,

    I don't know if Tascam plans to make this 16bit compatible or not.

    Another cool thing I thought I would point out about DEF. DEF instruments use much less polyphony as they aren't triggering new samples with the mod wheel like we would with a typical mod wheel crossfade program, thus keeping voice count down.

    Though DEF does use some more actual cpu power, in our tests we found that the DEF instruments used significantly less total system resources than similar Mod Wheel crossfade programs. So in most cases even though DEF uses a bit more cpu power, instruments not only have the capability to crescendo or decrescendo capturing volume and timbre elements very realistically and smoothly, but still manages to be more efficient.

    Best Regards,
    Al J.
    Sonic Implants

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