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Topic: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

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  1. #1

    Question Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Lately I've been experiencing a weird problem: I spend a great deal of time tweaking the mod wheel and velocity on a solo string part until it sounds the way I want it to, but then the next time I load my project, the dynamics are harsh and uneven-sounding. But after a while with the sequencer and GPO open, the sound gradually moves back to where I intended it to be.

    Example: This is a solo violin part as it sounds when I've had the project open in SONAR for a while:

    Solo violin test #1 (Ogg Vorbis format, 355 KB)

    Immediately after exporting that, I closed SONAR, reopened it, reopened the project and exported this:

    Solo violin test #2 (Ogg Vorbis format, 355 KB)

    Has anyone else encountered this? Is it a bug in SONAR? A bug in the Kontakt player? (I never noticed it until I installed the recent update.) My imagination?
    -- Jeff Lee
    Etiam singula minima maximi momenti est - Even the smallest detail is of the utmost importance

  2. #2

    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Almost sounds like something to do with the sustain pedal being depressed through the whole melody the second time--activating legato mode. Do you have CC64 recorded in this line?

    Also, do you have an external keyboard with a sustain pedal and/or mod wheel? I find sometimes when I have it connected with MIDI echo on the same track that's playing back, the MOD wheel may magically influence the recorded CC1 values without touching it at all. But I simply select another track and that goes away. Doesn't sound like its CC1 though.

    Schroeder
    "You know, Lois, I'm really not comfortable talking about this amelodically." - Brian the Dog

  3. #3
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey
    Lately I've been experiencing a weird problem: I spend a great deal of time tweaking the mod wheel and velocity on a solo string part until it sounds the way I want it to, but then the next time I load my project, the dynamics are harsh and uneven-sounding. But after a while with the sequencer and GPO open, the sound gradually moves back to where I intended it to be.

    Example: This is a solo violin part as it sounds when I've had the project open in SONAR for a while:

    Solo violin test #1 (Ogg Vorbis format, 355 KB)

    Immediately after exporting that, I closed SONAR, reopened it, reopened the project and exported this:

    Solo violin test #2 (Ogg Vorbis format, 355 KB)

    Has anyone else encountered this? Is it a bug in SONAR? A bug in the Kontakt player? (I never noticed it until I installed the recent update.) My imagination?
    Godfrey,

    Couldn't hear your examples, but I have had a similar situation: using Sibelius, setting Mod wheel values, everything is fine - but then at some point, usually in the latter part of the work, it is as though it gets tired, and ignores what I have written. If I play back from 5 measures before, it plays back fine - if I play form the beginning, many data markings are ignored. And, it is inconsistent. Don't know if it is a Kontakt thing, or a Sibelius/Kontakt thing.

    Sorry I couldn't be of any help; just wanted a chance to whine

    R. Pearl

  4. #4

    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeder
    Almost sounds like something to do with the sustain pedal being depressed through the whole melody the second time--activating legato mode. Do you have CC64 recorded in this line?
    Well, I manually inserted some CC64 events where I wanted them, but the first CC64 ON occurs after the notes begin, and the last CC64 OFF occurs before the final note. And since the second version was exported immediately after starting SONAR and loading the project, it should have been in its default OFF state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeder
    Also, do you have an external keyboard with a sustain pedal and/or mod wheel?
    I do, but all of my keyboards and controllers were turned off when I exported those examples. The only thing that changed between exports was quitting and restarting SONAR. And the weird part is if I open the project in SONAR, play it once (at which time it sounds like the second example) and then just let it sit there for a couple of hours without doing anything, it'll then play back like the first example.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpearl
    I have had a similar situation: using Sibelius, setting Mod wheel values, everything is fine - but then at some point, usually in the latter part of the work, it is as though it gets tired, and ignores what I have written. If I play back from 5 measures before, it plays back fine - if I play form the beginning, many data markings are ignored. And, it is inconsistent. Don't know if it is a Kontakt thing, or a Sibelius/Kontakt thing.
    Well, if similar things are happening with different sequencers, it sounds to me like there are some bugs in the Kontakt player; I've seen some other weirdness recently as well (string patches playing at the proper pitch, but with extremely fast vibrato; or if I start playing with one track soloed, and turn off solo while it's playing, the other tracks come in one by one, with a few seconds between entrances. This doesn't happen with any other softsynth I've tried). And then of course there's that wacky reversed slider on the X-custom instruments...
    -- Jeff Lee
    Etiam singula minima maximi momenti est - Even the smallest detail is of the utmost importance

  5. #5
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    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Check to see if your sending CC7/CC10 messages. You may be sending out volume messages.

    I use Sonar and have never had this issue in either the Kontakt player, Kontakt 1.53 or Kontakt 2.02.

  6. #6

    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    rPearl,
    I think that it might be a CPU issue...sometimes similiar things happen with pops and clicks for me when my CPU maxes out. It's terrible from the beggining, but when I play it from the trouble spot it's fine.

    If you ask me, I think our machines are literally getting tired over time, suggesting an inner life inside our computers. A computer is a life in itself. We need to treat them with respect as we would a real person.

    -Chris

  7. #7
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    rPearl,
    I think that it might be a CPU issue...sometimes similiar things happen with pops and clicks for me when my CPU maxes out. It's terrible from the beggining, but when I play it from the trouble spot it's fine.

    If you ask me, I think our machines are literally getting tired over time, suggesting an inner life inside our computers. A computer is a life in itself. We need to treat them with respect as we would a real person.

    -Chris
    Chris,

    I doubt it's a CPU issue with me. I run a Mac G5 1.8 ghz, 2 G RAM. The above happens when I have three horns, a solo violin, and a string section going; on the Kontakt readout, it registers the CPU at about 35%. Also, it starts just fine - when things drop out, it's usually 5 or 6 minutes into the piece. Also, I will occasionally "lose" a pitch. It may just be the way Sibelius sends its info to Kontakt.

    Hey, Happy Birthday!

    R. Pearl

  8. #8

    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Quote Originally Posted by rpearl
    Chris,

    I doubt it's a CPU issue with me. I run a Mac G5 1.8 ghz, 2 G RAM. The above happens when I have three horns, a solo violin, and a string section going; on the Kontakt readout, it registers the CPU at about 35%. Also, it starts just fine - when things drop out, it's usually 5 or 6 minutes into the piece. Also, I will occasionally "lose" a pitch. It may just be the way Sibelius sends its info to Kontakt.

    Hey, Happy Birthday!

    R. Pearl
    Oh!
    Thanks!

    These are all very odd things. Just adding to the 'life in computer' theory. I noticed if I leave the polyphony at 1 for the flute V, (it just happened to be this patch...it could be another) and I put in a fast line of 16th notes in there, eventually the notes get weaker and weaker untill they go away. But this is only over a second or two. I have no idea about any of these issues.

    -Chris

  9. #9

    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn
    Check to see if your sending CC7/CC10 messages. You may be sending out volume messages.
    Nope, none of those controllers exist in the MIDI tracks, I'm not resetting volume/pan upon stop, and the Kontakt player is set to ignore volume/pan messages.

    The really weird thing is, all of my "X-custom" instruments, recorded with a wind controller, play fine -- it's just the "dry" instruments, recorded on a keyboard, that are having trouble.


    I use Sonar and have never had this issue in either the Kontakt player, Kontakt 1.53 or Kontakt 2.02.
    Hm. What version of SONAR are you using? This is the first time I've noticed this -- but it's also the first project I've started since applying the 4.0.3 patch.
    -- Jeff Lee
    Etiam singula minima maximi momenti est - Even the smallest detail is of the utmost importance

  10. #10
    Senior Member squoze's Avatar
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    Re: Less responsive to velocity as time goes on?

    I've had problem in Sonar with envelopes for a while. Sonar seems to frequently forget about my envelopes. I have to right click on the envelope and reassign it to the channel and CC#. Then it usually works for a while.
    This happens with most of my plugins, not just GPO.
    I contacted cakewalk support--they had me install midiyoke and monitor the midi signals. Sonar seemed to be generating the midi signals, but somehow they weren't getting to my plugins.
    I still have the problem.
    I never have problems with volume or pan, just the other envelopes.
    Good luck.

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