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Topic: Are you willing to give up what you have?

  1. #1

    Are you willing to give up what you have?

    Because I don't believe in hiding behind innuendo, and also don't feel my comments are disrespectful or inappropriate, I'll say this up front so we're all on the same page. Yes, newmusicboy, I'm talking about your behavior in particular.

    When I was shopping for an orchestral library, the very first review I read about GPO said, essentially, “good product, good price, but the incredibly friendly and supportive community that has grown up around GPO shows that it’s here to stay.” That got my attention, and I saw these comments reflected in many other places. So I bought GPO, and experienced first hand that it was true. Some of you may not realize this, but it was the attitude and vibe of the people in this community that inspired me to launch the Composer Channel in the first place. Everyone was so nice here, it really made me want to help them.

    The Internet is full of discussion forums, and in almost all of them there are continual arguments, insults and flame wars. Feeling safely hidden behind their false identities, people treat each other with a rudeness and disrespect that they would never attempt if they were physically standing in the same room. That’s because in the real world, standing nose to nose, people don’t tolerate that kind of behavior. On the Internet, however, many people feel that they’re immune to the consequences of their actions and use this as an excuse to abuse others with impunity.

    Because the overwhelming majority of you here are exceptionally nice people, you’re sitting back quietly and saying nothing as the disease of insults and hatefulness begins to infest one of the few benevolent forums I’ve seen. All it takes is one intentionally inflammatory person to get the ball rolling. Soon, kindred spirits who also enjoy exercising their personal demons by insulting others join the ranks. Because these are the loudest voices and enjoy shouting others down, theirs becomes the voice that is heard. People of good conscience who don’t enjoy confrontation sit quietly in the background, no longer contributing their wonderful insights. Others, seeing the mood shift, simply leave. Soon, all that’s left are the loud and insulting voices, and what was once a wonderful island of benevolence amidst the typical flame wars of the Internet dies and fades into memory.

    New Orleans offers a sobering and real world example of what happens when small breaches occur in a levee. Soon, the levee breaks, and all that was once good is washed away. Although I’ve said little, I’ve been monitoring the forums and have seen numerous people offer comments about this new attitude that range from “…and this is why I don’t post anymore” to “why aren’t people like this simply banned?”

    Gary is a good guy, and works hard to give people the benefit of the doubt. Others, who don’t want to get sucked into a negative situation (and good for them), try hard to justify rude, insulting remarks by saying, “oh, that was just a joke that others took the wrong way.” Sorry, folks. Calling someone (and I quote) an idiot, telling people not to quit their day job or suggesting that they should enroll in clown college (if their grades aren’t too low to be accepted) is simply not funny. It’s insulting, rude, and just plain mean. That’s not the sort of spirit that used to prevail here, and it’s certainly no place that I want to be.

    Gary asked me quite a while back if I’d like to be a Moderator here, and I simply don’t have the time. That’s probably just as well, because I feel very strongly about protecting what may be one of the few existing benevolent communities on the Internet. I would simply offer one warning and then ban such instigators without a second thought. Rudeness is not funny. Insults are not funny. If you want to be the center of attention, I’m okay with that, provided you do it in a way that doesn’t demean or inflame another.

    Are you willing to give up what you have here? You might think the “finger in the dam” analogy is overstating the gravity of the situation. I do not. I am no scholar, but I’m certainly a student of both human nature and history. At every level of society, things like this go downhill in a hurry. (Try reading the abstract art thread if you’d like a case in point.)

    If you’re willing to sit back and do nothing, then you will see the atmosphere here deteriorate to the point that people become uncomfortable posting their thoughts or music for fear of ridicule or confrontation. Look around you – it’s happening already. You will lose the brotherhood (and sisterhood) that has been nurtured and promoted by Gary and all of you here. You will lose the mutual support of your artistic endeavors, and these forums will diminish to little more than a technical support venue where people just complain and flame the company. Think I’m exaggerating? Spend some time visiting other forums.

    Newmusicboy, if you’d like to become one of us, enjoy the benefits of a room full of friends who will encourage your artistic endeavors, offer supportive comments, give help where it’s needed and in general reap the benefits that come from a large and positive group of people, then I respectfully submit that you make swift and serious changes in the way you treat others around here. These people are my friends, and they deserve respect and consideration, not insults and ridicule. If you’re not willing to interact in a kind and benevolent manner here, there are plenty of other places on the Internet where people will be happy to exchange insults with you. Start conducting yourself with honor and respect, or get out.

    Folks, it would be nice if everything stayed positive with no effort. Real life doesn’t work that way. If you want to keep what you have here, you need to stand up and be counted. Perhaps if enough people speak with a loud enough voice, either Newmusicboy will choose to tone it down and conduct himself in an appropriate manner or he’ll simply be banned. I’m perfectly comfortable with either option. I’m not comfortable with seeing the Garritan forums become yet another casualty of Internet rudeness.

    If you’d like to see an end to the insults and negativity we’ve been experiencing this past few weeks, then step up to the plate and say so, even if it’s no more than a reply that says, “I agree”.

    It’s your community, unless you give it up by letting the aggressively rude shout you down.
    Christopher Duncan
    Author of
    Unite the Tribes and The Career Programmer

  2. #2

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    Amen! I couldn't agree more.

  3. #3

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    I'm more a lurker than a contributor, but I feel the same way and am more reluctant the past few days to contribute any of my ideas. Yes, I agree!


  4. #4

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. Thank you for that post.

    "You know, Lois, I'm really not comfortable talking about this amelodically." - Brian the Dog

  5. #5

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    You're not the only one who feels that way Christopher. I freely admit that I did not have the courage to post my feelings as you have. Frankly, with everyone else seeming to enjoy the state-of-affairs as the were, I thought that any actions on my part like that would seem rude as well.

    The only thing I could muster against behavoir like that was during last Sunday's chat with a snipe asking NMB pointedly if he'd slammed any other composers recently.

    That thread was probably the most vociferous, strident, mean-spirited discussion I'd ever seen on these forums and they were an embarrassment.

    I'm glad you stated what I couldn't. Thanks


  6. #6

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Duncan
    If you’d like to see an end to the insults and negativity we’ve been experiencing this past few weeks, then step up to the plate and say so, even if it’s no more than a reply that says, “I agree”.

    It’s your community, unless you give it up by letting the aggressively rude shout you down.
    Well said! I agree completely, and now feel somewhat sheepish for simply ignoring the offending threads.


  7. #7

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    Hello Christopher,

    I haven't spend enough time in the forum, but I have realized this is a special one. I have seen what you say in lots of forums. Tipical "A vs B" threads usually end with insults and rudeness. I think people in this one are very nice and respectful wuith the others.

    It would be a pity if this forum becames as the others, but I hope that won't happen. I have readed lots of posts before posting my first, but I have always tought all those "bad words" were really jokes without any bad intentions. I think we all have to do our best to keep the forum "as is", and be sure I'll do my part.



  8. #8

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    Thanks for being brave enough to post something like this!

    I certainly agree, especially since some of the comments were directed at me. I generally just ignore them as I don't want to turn such comments into a big thing.

    But, as you say Chris, this is definitely one of the best (if not the best) forums around, and it's thanks to the wonderful personality of everyone on it. I think it can be contagious; who doesn't want to be part of such a great group? But the disrespectfulness and rudeness can be contagious too, and I certainly don't want that to happen.

    I am very open on this forum. You know my name, where I go to college, my birthday, etc. And not just me, but the many other members. It makes the community a great place. I believe when you have a community that is so open and enthusiastic about what they love (music), it will also encourage professionals to take their time to discuss what they know.

    Let's keep the community a great place to stay. We are capable of having disagreements with one another and philosophical discussions while showing respect to one another. We don't all share the same crude sense of humor. A great community should remain a part of the GPO package.

    Thanks again, Chris
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  9. #9

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?


    I'm not able to tune into the forum as often as I wish but those times that I am able I have been extremely impressed with the kindness and respect contributors show to each other. This is indeed a special place to come to be educated on this wonderful technology and to share with others their experience with GPO. I would not tolerate for one second any disruptive forces or influence for this forum. If that means isolating the bad apples then I'm all for it. There are too many other forums for people to go to to hide in the anonymity of the internet and blast away. Not here!

    Thanks very much for bringing this to the attention of the forum.

  10. #10

    Re: Are you willing to give up what you have?

    Christopher, thank you for your comments. I participate in this forum and one other for the very reasons you highlighted in your post.

    I agree fully with your observations.

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