• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Topic: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Arrow Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    Note: I just discovered this concept and how well it works. If this is something old and everybody is aware of, my apologies for repeating old news. But I think this is SO COOL!!!!!

    With GPO's enseamble building, especially in the strings, there are a few issues. You can't build pizz sections, con sordino sections, or have that nice trill and tremlo feature when you build a section. I've come up with a way to ensaemble build any patch in GPO, but there is a slight limit on the upper and lower ranges of the instrument.

    This is how you do it:
    Load up a solo patch of your choice (plr patches will not work for this).
    In a single instance, load five channels of this instrument of your choice.
    In your sequencer, make the five tracks and point them to each GPO instrument.
    In the first track, put in a pitch wheel value that makes the instrument in tune but a whole step low. In the second track, use the pitch wheel to make the instrument a half step low. In the third don't put any data in so the track is true pitch. In the fourth make it a half step sharp, and in the fifth a whole stop sharp.
    Now when you enter in notes, put them so that they are correct in pitch. Since the solo instruments are sampled chromaticly, there will be no phasing because you are stretching different samples to a common pitch.
    Now you can have violin sections of 15 (pizz, arco, you name it!), trombone sections of 5 (yay!) a section of vibrato flutes, and whatever you want!!

    The same concept can be applied to timpani rolls. Instead of having just left hand and right hand hits you can load up a couple instances of the timpani, pitch shift some, and alternate between timpani instruments during a roll.

    Happy composing!
    -Chris

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Orcas Island
    Posts
    11,454

    Re: Ensemble building taken to a whole new level!

    Hi Chris,

    Very cool! Another great trick of the trade that many will find useful!

    Thanks for posting this.

    Gary Garritan

  3. #3
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    California Redwoods
    Posts
    2,938

    Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    Note: I just discovered this concept and how well it works. If this is something old and everybody is aware of, my apologies for repeating old news. But I think this is SO COOL!!!!!

    With GPO's enseamble building, especially in the strings, there are a few issues. You can't build pizz sections, con sordino sections, or have that nice trill and tremlo feature when you build a section. I've come up with a way to ensaemble build any patch in GPO, but there is a slight limit on the upper and lower ranges of the instrument.

    This is how you do it:
    Load up a solo patch of your choice (plr patches will not work for this).
    In a single instance, load five channels of this instrument of your choice.
    In your sequencer, make the five tracks and point them to each GPO instrument.
    In the first track, put in a pitch wheel value that makes the instrument in tune but a whole step low. In the second track, use the pitch wheel to make the instrument a half step low. In the third don't put any data in so the track is true pitch. In the fourth make it a half step sharp, and in the fifth a whole stop sharp.
    Now when you enter in notes, put them so that they are correct in pitch. Since the solo instruments are sampled chromaticly, there will be no phasing because you are stretching different samples to a common pitch.
    Now you can have violin sections of 15 (pizz, arco, you name it!), trombone sections of 5 (yay!) a section of vibrato flutes, and whatever you want!!

    The same concept can be applied to timpani rolls. Instead of having just left hand and right hand hits you can load up a couple instances of the timpani, pitch shift some, and alternate between timpani instruments during a roll.

    Happy composing!
    -Chris

    Well, it sounds quite interesting. But I don't understand anything about it except how to detune. I completely miss what you are accomplishing, possibly because I don't do much orchestral, mostly piano, piano and solo instrument, or pipe organ. See if you can find a way to penetrate the fossilization between my ears.

    Richard

  4. #4

    Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    Sounds great, but would you please publish (here) the correct pitch wheel values (for every instrument) for us tone deaf (or just plain deaf) users. Especially, the AG brass patches!

    Thanks!

    YBaCuO

    PS This is similar to the much bally-hooed "Solution to the Machine Gun Effect" floating around Kontakt Forum, which uses uses a K2 script. So pitch-wheel technique can be used to help eliminate repeated notes. I really hope GPOA has all these basic scripts too.

  5. #5

    Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    Quote Originally Posted by rwayland
    Well, it sounds quite interesting. But I don't understand anything about it except how to detune. I completely miss what you are accomplishing, possibly because I don't do much orchestral, mostly piano, piano and solo instrument, or pipe organ. See if you can find a way to penetrate the fossilization between my ears.

    Richard
    What I am doing is taking a solo instrument and dividing it up into 5 individual instruments that can be played together at the same time, thus creating an enseamble. It's a lot like the plr instruments but I managed to get 5 instruments out of a solo instrument rather than 3. This means you can load up the solo Strad (the GPO one) five times and have each one play a different note, but pitch bent to the correct pitch, and have an enseamble of 5 Strads without phasing. You can also enseamble build pizz this way.

    It's like this: if you have one solo Strad playing a D, one a C#, one a C, one a B, and one a Bb at the same time, you can pitch bend the D, C#, B, and Bb to the correct pitch (C, in this case). Since the solo instruments in GPO are chromaticly sampled, you are playing five different samples on the same pitch, which creates an enseamble without phasing.

    YBaCuO,
    I have my pitch wheel set up so that all the way down is one whole step down. I didn't know you can adjust the pitch bend range, but if you can make it bigger you can make even more instruments from the solo instrument, but each time you make another instrument you limit the instrument's upper and lower ranges.
    If you have the enseamble of five instruments playing C, then the instrument playing a D will have a pitch wheel value of -7296 to make it a C. The C# instrument will have a value of -3840 to make it a C. The B instrument will have a +3804 and the Bb instrument +7296.
    These values worked for me when I was experimenting with the violins. Different instruments may require slightly different values.

    Prince, how do you change the pitch bend range? I'd like to know. I'm using Sonar 4 PE.

    -Chris

  6. #6

    Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    As an alternative to entering pitch bend messages in your sequence, you could also change the 'tune' parameter on each channel/instrument in the GPO plugin editor. The tuning can be easily set in semitones from -12 to +12.

    I was trying this just now, and had my solo violin tracks set up to transpose the notes according to the tune offset in the player. The idea was that I would use just one shared note sequence to control all the violins. I did feel kind of stupid when I tried entering notes for the keyswitches, because those are transposed as well .

    Frits

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Albany, NY or P'ville, NY
    Posts
    67

    Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    I tried this with Overture 4 using the tune knob in the NI Player, and transposing playback in Overture. It works great. The only quibble I have about this technique is that a violin section made up of 12 solo violins is much louder than the single sampled 12 player violin 1 section, so you have to mess with the solo instruments' volume to get them to sound as loud as they should when playing together. Other than that, nice discovery!

  8. #8
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    California Redwoods
    Posts
    2,938

    Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    Quote Originally Posted by cptexas
    What I am doing is taking a solo instrument and dividing it up into 5 individual instruments that can be played together at the same time, thus creating an enseamble. It's a lot like the plr instruments but I managed to get 5 instruments out of a solo instrument rather than 3. This means you can load up the solo Strad (the GPO one) five times and have each one play a different note, but pitch bent to the correct pitch, and have an enseamble of 5 Strads without phasing. You can also enseamble build pizz this way.

    It's like this: if you have one solo Strad playing a D, one a C#, one a C, one a B, and one a Bb at the same time, you can pitch bend the D, C#, B, and Bb to the correct pitch (C, in this case). Since the solo instruments in GPO are chromaticly sampled, you are playing five different samples on the same pitch, which creates an enseamble without phasing.

    YBaCuO,
    I have my pitch wheel set up so that all the way down is one whole step down. I didn't know you can adjust the pitch bend range, but if you can make it bigger you can make even more instruments from the solo instrument, but each time you make another instrument you limit the instrument's upper and lower ranges.
    If you have the enseamble of five instruments playing C, then the instrument playing a D will have a pitch wheel value of -7296 to make it a C. The C# instrument will have a value of -3840 to make it a C. The B instrument will have a +3804 and the Bb instrument +7296.
    These values worked for me when I was experimenting with the violins. Different instruments may require slightly different values.

    Prince, how do you change the pitch bend range? I'd like to know. I'm using Sonar 4 PE.

    -Chris
    Well, thanks. I see what I missed the first time areound.

    Richard

  9. #9

    Thumbs up Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zynewave
    As an alternative to entering pitch bend messages in your sequence, you could also change the 'tune' parameter on each channel/instrument in the GPO plugin editor. The tuning can be easily set in semitones from -12 to +12.

    I was trying this just now, and had my solo violin tracks set up to transpose the notes according to the tune offset in the player. The idea was that I would use just one shared note sequence to control all the violins. I did feel kind of stupid when I tried entering notes for the keyswitches, because those are transposed as well .

    Frits
    YES!!!

    Very good observation!
    That'd be much easier!
    Thank you!

    -Chris

  10. #10

    Re: Enseamble building taken to a whole new level!

    Not to rain on CP's parade, but I have done this for quite some time but in a slightly different way.

    When I have a bunch of repeated notes in a track, I take every other note and change the actual midi note so that it accesses a different sample. Then I create pitch data in DP for those notes to make them the correct sounding note. Sometimes you have to reach for a few notes above or below to get to an actual "different" sample, since some instruments are not sampled chromatically. It just works. This is slightly different than CP's original post, because this has nothing to do with ensemble building, but has everything to do with eliminating (MGE) machine gun effect, or at least minimizing it.

    Good work CP!!!!!!

    dpDan

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •