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Topic: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

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  1. #1

    Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    I have been impressed by the work of Shkirman Miush, who puts his loop-based stuff up on AcidPlanet.com

    Here's a piece I am intriged by. If anyone familiar with remixing and loop-based music can have a listen and tell me how you think this was done, I'd be really interested.

    http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=657981&t=5442


    I am impressed.

    Especially by this one...the one sfiks turned me onto in the other thread:

    http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=658973&t=1465

    I get such a sense in the latter part of the song of "epic effort" and sadness at the same time. Very moving to me.

    Again, how would you say this was done?

    --- Glenn

  2. #2

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    You might not know this, but they sell tons of commercially sampled CD's of ethnic vocals of recorded phrases, ethnic instruments playing phrases..etc, and all you have to do is to piece various lines and phrases together (check out Deepest India for example). They also sell sample CD's of orchestral phrases--fully orchestrated and arranged snippets. You can hear in some spots of the song that the key of the vocal clashed with the key of the accompaniment--that wouldn't have happened if this was composed from scratch instead of using loops (unless the composer lacked proper knowledge of clashing keys). Now, I don't know if the entire piece is loops, but I'm assuming it is because that's how you presented the case.

    Now, with advanced pitch correction like Melodyne and Sonar 5's V-Vocal, that key clashing could be easily fixed.

    BTW, I hope you've heard of Enigma, because this style of music's been done to death by Enigma back in the late 80's and early 90's.

  3. #3

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Dear Glenn

    As like what Lunatique said, LOOPS has become a "musical style" rather than merely a "musical tool". You might consider it's just an electronic version of compositional skill a la Philip Glass.

    Check out this piece too (not written by my though) - The Road Home - the song is built entirely on a single drum loop. I think it works beautiful!

    Frankie
    Dell Precision T3500 (Xeon W3520, 12GB RAM) / Windows 7 x64 / Sonar 8 / VE Pro / WIVI 2.3 / Kontakt 4 / G-Player 1.2

  4. #4

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatique
    You might not know this, but they sell tons of commercially sampled CD's of ethnic vocals of recorded phrases, ethnic instruments playing phrases..etc, and all you have to do is to piece various lines and phrases together (check out Deepest India for example).

    BTW, I hope you've heard of Enigma, because this style of music's been done to death by Enigma back in the late 80's and early 90's.
    Lunatique,

    So...as I was wondering in the other thread, there *are* some "tricks" here to get this sound. And no, I did not know about the phrases and all the orchestral stuff that you can purchase.

    And actually, I have never heard Enigma, though I think I may have heard the name. Now I'll have to listen to them on Rhapsody and see how closely this fellow has copied the Enigma formula.

    But you know, regardless of how he put this together, the second link, Siberia, really moved me. I could picture a lot of things in that piece, regardless of whether Miush meant it that way or not.

    I especially liked the triplet rising harplike "theme" that the song was built on in Siberia.

    This has all got me really thinking, though. Because I really don't care how Siberia came about, whether Miush played it or "produced" it. I still get the same pleasant experience from the piece.

    I take it you did not get the same pleasure?

    --- Glenn

  5. #5

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozeN
    Dear Glenn

    Check out this piece too (not written by my though) - The Road Home - the song is built entirely on a single drum loop. I think it works beautiful!

    Frankie
    Frankie,


    Interesting piece. Yes, it did work well all on the same drum loop. There was enough going on in the orchestra that it didn't become terribly repetitive.


    --- Glenn

  6. #6

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatique
    I hope you've heard of Enigma, because this style of music's been done to death by Enigma back in the late 80's and early 90's.
    Lunatique,

    I just went through a whole mess of Enigma tunes stretching from 1990 to the later 90s. Yes, the style is quite similar.

    BUT, there seems to be a lot more going on in Miush's pieces. Eneigma was pretty formulaic, I thought. And a lot more "sparse" than, say the Siberia piece.

    It's all new to me though.

    I wonder what other people think of the 2 pieces I posted links for.

    --- Glenn

  7. #7

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
    I take it you did not get the same pleasure?
    --- Glenn
    Well, let's just say that I've heard plenty of stuff done in that style for the last 20 years or so (Deep Forest, Enigma, Delerium's "Karma" album, Govinda, Afro Celt Sound System, Robert Rich, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, and every other copycat that sounded like them). In fact, the entire new age/ethno corner of the music market jumped on that "contemporary ethno groove" wagon as soon as Enigma came out with their thing in the late 80's. You can't swing a dead cat and not hit one of them--that's how prevalent it's been. And I didn't even get into the ambient electronica guys--who exploited India and the Middle East resources like Quentino Tarantino exploited black and Asian cinema. There are also talented and respected composers who's done stuff in that styel--guys like Ryuichi Sakamoto (Academy Award winning composer), Peter Gabriel..etc, so I'm quite spoiled. I can't say the 2 tracks did much for me, at least compared to what I usually listen to. That Siberia track was better than the other one though.

    The most amazing thing I've ever heard done in that "ethnic meets contemporary groove" style is the soundtrack for Steam (Hamam: The Turkish Bath). You can listen to soundclips here (go through all the tracks--each and every one of them amazing, but listening to just a snippet doesn't do the tracks any justice at all because they're taken out of context. And these guys aren't loop users--they compose and perform the good ol' fashioned way):

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...music&n=507846

    What I love about those guys is that they don't just throw ethnic instruments and vocals on top of drum loops and synths and then call it done. They carefully balance the traditional and the modern with composition and arrangement, and they do it without sounding like any of the "me too" copycats. There isn't a trace of pretentiousness in their stuff--just hauntingly beautiful.

    You should also check out what Anne Dudely did with Jaz Coleman on the album "Songs From the Victorious City." Soundclips here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...music&n=507846
    (Anne Dudely is a member of the avant garde group Art of Noise, and Jaz Coleman is the frontman of the art rock group Killing Joke--and both compose orchestral music when doing solo work)

    Here are more soundclips for you to check out:

    Govinda:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=music

    Robert Rich:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=music

    Afro Celt Sound System:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=music

    Deep Forest:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...music&n=507846

    These guys released multiple albums of the stuff, and they are just a few I named--there are an entire army of musical acts who work in a similar style--all with multiple albums. None of them are loop guys AFAIK--all are great composers and performers of real instruments.

    BTW, that track posted by FrozeN is far from what I'd call loop-based music. The entire thing is composed and orchestrated with melody and harmony, and the only thing that's repeated is the drum track, which still had percussive variations here and there.

  8. #8

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Could anyone tell me the "flute-like" instrument in the beginning? It has many cello like nuances that could lend itself to quite a bit of versatility. Thanks so much!

    Best! -Tweed

  9. #9

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Regarding "Siberia" I think some are loops/samples from sample libraries and some things are played in. As you may know, some people use Acid planet just to host their songs, they don't necessarily use Acid to create the tracks.

    I'm pretty sure the ethnic Russian vocal that you hear is from a russian sample CD: russiansounds.com It's only vocals, but you build everything else around it.

    Check out what NeilFactory did with "SPIRITUAL VOICES" samples:

    http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/s...ead.php?t=2008

  10. #10

    Re: Is this all loops? Or more of a remix?

    Hi fellas! I should say tht i agree with Lulnatique ppoint of view. This style of course has been done and redone on commercial and soundtrack movie but i do agree with Glenn, the piece has been well done by "Miush" so big appluase to him. I think also that Glenn you can try to look at: RA from EastWest if you wanna get some of those partcular and uniqu Indigenious and Authentic Flute or really moving instrument.. and that is just one of the Vsti but there is more and more.. Ethno World etc..

    Love it

    My
    My
    Music Producer/Arranger & Composer
    Solar Musik ent.
    www.solarmusik.com

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