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Topic: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    From Sonar 4 (SE), I'm trying to send a MIDI clip (with kick, snare and hat) to GS3 to trigger Larry Seyer Acoustic Drums. I load the "Small and Tight" kit (gsi file) in GS3, and all of the different drum elements in that kit show up fine as one stacked instrument (Port 1, Channel 1)(and I make sure the track in Sonar is output to that port and channel). But as soon as I push play (in Sonar), all I hear is the kick - "Montineri Kick". So I click on the minimized GS3 and find that all the other drums/cymbals in the kit are now gone from the MIDI mixer - only Montineri Kick is left (it had said "Stacked Instrument", of which Montineri Kick was merely one of 13 - but now it just says "Montineri Kick", alone). So I go over to the Loaded Instruments list and click on "Montineri Custom Snare", and I can suddenly hear the snare playing - same with the "13 Inch Light Hat". But as soon as I stop and restart the source clip in Sonar (or as soon as the clip reaches its end loop point and starts over again), the Snare and Hat disappear again, and only Montineri Kick remains.

    I must be not understanding something fundamental about Giga. How do I get the whole drumkit to stay put and play?

    [I hope it doesn't have anything to do with my MIDI clip being the product of the CAL function "Split To Tracks" (I told Sonar to split a JMT Orchestrator clip into separate tracks so I could send the drums to Larry Seyer drums in GS3)...]

    Thanks.

    - Beanie

  2. #2

    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    Okay, I just tested a different MIDI clip (a regular one, rather than one from a "Split To Tracks" CAL operation) and GS3 plays all the drums fine. So there must be something about the CAL function in Sonar (Process>Run CAL>Split To Tracks), that does something to the resulting MIDI tracks.

    ...which is depressing, because I had wanted to use JMT Orchestrator to produce different style arrangements for me, and then once I got the feel I wanted, split that arrangement into separate instrument tracks - the guitar one to trigger Real Guitar, the drum one to trigger GS3 and Larry Seyer Drums, etc. I hope I can figure a way around this. Splitting the arrangement into separate tracks was a key part of my strategy.

    I'm tempted to conclude that it's all just a Sonar/JMT Orchestrator issue, but actually, Real Guitar has no problem accepting and playing the resulting MIDI clip from a Split-To-Tracks operation.

    Anyway, I'd welcome your advice, if you have any.

    - Beanie

  3. #3
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    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    I don't use CAL, but I have a suspicion that your midi tracks have some patch chosen in sonar's track view. Many times I've had to reload instruments into a GS channel, only to have it change again on playback. That is because if there is a patch defined in sonar, it will send a patch change message at the start of playback, which will load whatever patch in giga's loaded inst's window corresponds to the patch number in sonar. I haven't tested, but I'd say giga makes a guess using the nearest patch number if the one sent form sonar is not present.

    PRobably something in the CAL script sets the split tracks to specific patch #'s, based on the GM standard. If you do CAL programming, you can probably override this behavior by modifying the CAL script.

    Hope this helps,

    Belbin

  4. #4
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    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    ps.

    Also go into tools|project options in sonar, look under the midi output tab, and uncheck "Zero Controllers When Play Stops".

    Just to be sure.

    Good Luck,
    Belbin

  5. #5

    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    Okay, you're right about the phantom patch number showing up in Sonar. It kept sneaking in a "0" (patch zero) instead of "none".

    So here's what I did: I opened an old downloaded MIDI file ('Clocks' by Coldplay); and, as soon as all the separate tracks showed up on screen, I rewired GS and dragged the drum track down to the actual Giga MIDI track (which ought to know what Giga "wants", after all) (as opposed to me manually adjusting the settings of the original MIDI track, which is prone to produce errors)..., and I got the clip to trigger all the drums in the Larry Seyer drumkit that I had selected. And I noticed that the default patch thing (in Sonar's newly-created Giga MIDI source track) indeed said "none" - so, just to test it, I tried switching it to "0"... and bingo, that's precisely when it knocked out everything in the kit except the kick drum. So, good call, Belbin.

    One nagging thing though - as soon as I got the drums playing correctly from GS, I noticed that they were starting a split second too early in the song (I wouldn't have been surprised much by its starting a tad late, maybe due to some latency,.... but early??). And this goes for any other tracks that I route to GS (piano, bass...). In every case, I have to right-click the clip in Sonar, then on Properties, and manually adjust the clip's start-time from 1:01:000 to 1:01:030, so it'll sync with the other instruments. Did I accidentally click something and get GS out of sync with Sonar? I don't think I changed any system or GS settings. Any suggestions?

    Thanks for your help!

    - Beanie

  6. #6
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    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    I've also had a few strange issues with Sonar and Larry's drum library. Not these, but it's good to know I wasn't crazy.

    My problem was that a handful of samples were playing back transposed in pitch an octave high.
    Some experts learn more and more about less and less, until at last they know everything there is about nothing at all.

  7. #7
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    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    [QUOTE=Beanie]One nagging thing though - as soon as I got the drums playing correctly from GS, I noticed that they were starting a split second too early in the song (I wouldn't have been surprised much by its starting a tad late, maybe due to some latency,.... but early??). And this goes for any other tracks that I route to GS (piano, bass...). In every case, I have to right-click the clip in Sonar, then on Properties, and manually adjust the clip's start-time from 1:01:000 to 1:01:030, so it'll sync with the other instruments. Did I accidentally click something and get GS out of sync with Sonar? I don't think I changed any system or GS settings. Any suggestions?

    Try toying with the hardware latency in your soundcard's control panel.
    I've had weird timeing issues with rewire, but I haven't gone that route for a while. You may also try the latency settings in Sonar's audio options, but I'm not even certain that there's any relation there to giga's latency.
    the earlieness of it probably indicates that sonar's audio has higher latency than giga, so decreasing sonar's latency may do the trick.

    Glad the patch problem worked out. Good luck with the rest.

    Belbin

  8. #8

    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    Beanie,

    The exact same thing happens to me. I loaded the LS drums as part of a performance, saved the performance, and every time I load the (gsi? - I'm not at my music PC) I have to reload the drums. Exactly as you say - Only the bass drum is mapped. It has nothing to do with a sequencer in my case. Very frustrating.

    Poco

  9. #9

    Re: Can't keep full drumkit loaded...

    I had this happen once with GS 3. I had Cubase SX and Kontakt loading a small sample set in sampler, not DFD mode alongside GS 3. (I don't usually try to run GS and Kontakt together, but this situation called for it). I fixed the problem by just rendering the Kontakt parts to wav and keeping GS going without it.

    In short, I think its some sort of memory allocation issue where GS can't perhaps allocate the memory it needs.

    fizbin

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