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Topic: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

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  1. #1

    Question GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    Been realizing orchestral arrangements with samplers for a very long time. Decided to get GPO, based on audio demos, to add to my sample library.

    I am really surprised to see that velocity isn't even offered as an option for controlling volume dynamics on many of the GPO instruments, and that it's necessary to develop a very un-pianistic technique to make these programs sing. I'm totally an advocate of using controllers (CC#07 & #11) to create and ride dynamics. Been doing this for years, but for me, the dynamics of a part are always first created by playing a sound using normal keyboard technique. Volume rides can be added during or after the initial performance of a part. Well, at least that's my technique but I don't think it's unusual. So for me, this lack of velocity-->volume control on most programs is most puzzling...

    There's that velocity slider in the Kontact player, and it's connected graphically to a knob. But on most programs that knob isn't programmed. What appears to be a flip menu triangle to the right of that virtual knob does nothing when you click on it (I was hoping for a choice of parameters to manipulate with velocity, including volume). So it seems that the only way I can program velocity-->dynamics is to pay full pop for Kontact so I can edit the programs. Is this the case? Or am I missing something?

    Sorry to be a downer with this, my first post. I'm a big fan of many of the sounds but I'm feeling a bit of "buyer's remorse" because I'm rather put off with the lack of velocity control. Again, if I'm missing something, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

  2. #2

    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    There is a lot of velocity control in GPO. The volume of some instruments, including the piano and most percussion, is entirely based on the velocity. But for most of the instruments the mod wheel controls the volume which allows for very expressive control of the performance. In those cases, the velocity affects the sound of the instrument but not the volume. And the modulation/volume can be drawn in or edited after the fact very easily using CC#1.

    You may have to get used to using the mod wheel to add/decrease the volume, as opposed to just playing it louder or softer on the keyboard, but once you do you should find it's very effective and really something that makes GPO particularly great.
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  3. #3
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    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    orkguy,

    Don't remorse There's a special version of the library for folks just like you!

    Pianos can be played pianistically as can other percussive instruments. But pianos are not sustaining instruments, they are percussive instruments and their sound decays once the note is played. A violin or wind instrument on the other hand can crescendo after the note is played. It can swell, vibrate, trill and do all sorts of things. Note velocity may be good for percussive instruments, but on a sustain instrument it poses a limitation. This is why we assigned dynamics to the mod wheel so you can control the dynamic flow of a note or a passage. The Mod wheel was selected because most keyboards have a mod wheel (few have an expression pedal).

    But if you are not comfortable with that arrangement there are other options. There is a special version that allows users to re-assign dynamic and other controls through the assignable slider in the Player.


    If you go to our download page you will see the "X-Custom Optional Folders". http://garritan.com/downloads.html
    "This new addition to the library is for people who want to customize their controllers. It allows users to have custom control over volume/timbre MIDI assignments and dynamic range through the assignable slider in the Player. This feature is especially useful for users with Wind Controllers. Also, this is particularly helpful for people with certain sequencers. For instance, Logic 6 (and earlier) and GarageBand users have the reset to "0" bug which this addition will allow you to reset the controller and avoid. With the X-Custom Folders, please note that all instruments load at full volume rather than the minimum volume standard used in the Dry and Wet Audition folders. This is useful for people with Standard MIDI files they want to play or with particular sequencers as well."
    In addition you can acheive the same result through many sequencers. On our downloads page are MFX plugins (created by Markleford) and Sonar programming that lets you reassign the controllers. Hope this helps.

    Gary Garritan

  4. #4

    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    Hi Gary,

    Thank you! This is great news. I'm going to the downloads page right now!!

  5. #5
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    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    Don't forget to try this tutorial Joseph did on using X-Custom instruments.

    http://www.lostandlonging.com/VirtualDesktop.html

  6. #6
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    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    GPO is a paradigm shift compared to other libraries. I've gotten so used to the way the strings, brass and woodwinds work in GPO that I find other libraries hard to work with now. I find that when velocity controls the volume as well as CC11 that it screws me up! Now I program the other libraries to behave like GPO.

    Jim

  7. #7

    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn
    GPO is a paradigm shift compared to other libraries. I've gotten so used to the way the strings, brass and woodwinds work in GPO that I find other libraries hard to work with now. I find that when velocity controls the volume as well as CC11 that it screws me up! Now I program the other libraries to behave like GPO.

    Jim

    Me too Jim,

    Luckily, Kontakt 2's VSL edition has MOD-wheel Xfades versions of their instruments. So I have not had to reprogram it, but I can tell you this, I won't go back to the pianistic control of volume in strings or other instruments that need that SMOOTH expression EVER AGAIN.
    GPO has so completely ingrained itself into my workflow, I have ahard time playing other libs.

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  8. #8

    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    The thing is, the MOD wheel does not just control volume, it controls DYNAMICS. That is, instead of just turning up the volume on a playing sample, it actually crossfades to new samples at a different dynamic level (at least I think this is how it works).

    This way as an instrument crescendos, the appropriate timbral changes occur too (the brass get brassier, the winds get brighter, etc.) Try a mod wheel crescendo on the solo bass clarinet patch and you'll see what I mean--it's much more musical than simply turning the volume up.

    It takes a tiny bit of getting used to if you're used to the old way, but in the end it becomes much easier--ride the mod wheel and it's like breathing into your instrument--so much more life than most samples.

    Velocity still has a function--it controls the strength of the attack, and I think you'll find that the ability to control dynamics in real time makes your playing much more lifelike.

    Have fun,
    chris.

  9. #9
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    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    If you are going to use the X-Custom instruments you need to pull the velocity slider into the negative settings as they got switched around after an update.

  10. #10

    Re: GPO Instruments not to be played pianistically?

    [breathes sigh of relief = ON]
    Downloaded all of the new goodies. Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!

    I'm definitely a fan of the modwheel = dynamics control for some instruments, solo violin being a fave. But for other instruments I must say that I greatly prefer having velocity control as the primary source of dynamics. It's great that Garritan has accommodated "people like me" Furthermore, these alternate "X" programs also accommodate the swapping of GPO instruments for parts previously recorded using modules/plug-ins which only sport velocity control of dynamics.

    Thanks everyone -- especially Gary -- for the replies.

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