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Topic: Ok, how many of you cheat?

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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Ok, how many of you cheat?

    No, not on your significant others....what were you all thinking? Sheesh.....

    How many of you, while using samples of real instruments in creating an orchestral MIDI score say,

    "ok, well, xyz is not possible on this instrument, but seeing as though this is a MIDI-only score and a real orchestra will not be performing this, and seeing as how nobody is really going to notice....especially being that there is dialogue over this...well, let me go ahead and do it anyway...." ?????

    Things that are simply impossible on a certain instruemnt, notes out of an instrument's range, raising the voulme of something (say, harp) so that it can be heard clearly when it normally wouldn't....how many of you do things like this - cheat, IOW - and how many of you are purists, and say,

    "nope - that intstrument can't do that in the real world, so I am not going to do that in my MIDI score"???

    Let's be honest now.....

  2. #2
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    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    None of that is cheating Jeff. That is being creative.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiffWraith
    No, not on your significant others....what were you all thinking? Sheesh.....

    How many of you, while using samples of real instruments in creating an orchestral MIDI score say,

    "ok, well, xyz is not possible on this instrument, but seeing as though this is a MIDI-only score and a real orchestra will not be performing this, and seeing as how nobody is really going to notice....especially being that there is dialogue over this...well, let me go ahead and do it anyway...." ?????

    Things that are simply impossible on a certain instruemnt, notes out of an instrument's range, raising the voulme of something (say, harp) so that it can be heard clearly when it normally wouldn't....how many of you do things like this - cheat, IOW - and how many of you are purists, and say,

    "nope - that intstrument can't do that in the real world, so I am not going to do that in my MIDI score"???

    Let's be honest now.....
    It's common knowledge in the trade that 63% of pop music, 45% of movie music, and 87% of Broadway show music is roughed out using Band in a Box. Is that cheating? I don't think so. Is living cheating? No one will admit to it though. Would you?

    Frank

    PS I just made up the figures..........before you take it too seriously......

  4. #4

    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    I think that real music is dying, everyone is just going by the book for a sure success. But that way music doesn't go forward and nothing changes. You hear the same over-consumed music beeing written by new artists instead of something new.

    Thinking is not good when writing music. I think the best thing is to write whatever you feel, however you can get it out. We are blessed to know how to use samples and we should be using them in uncommon creative ways for new results. Who cares if you make a harmonic mistake or go over a range? Only the forum members in the 2 or 3 forums we hang out will notice it and they'll probably mention it just because they heard it, not because they really think it's wrong.

    "Hey that's a parrallel fifth in your piece!!!" Well tough s*** man...cause that's how i like it.

    All these "instrument ranges" and "breaths" aply when another musician is listening to our pieces and have an idea of what's going on. I think it has nothing to do with music.
    Theo Krueger - Composer

    www.TheoKrueger.com

    Kontakt 2 Scripts

  5. #5

    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodor
    All these "instrument ranges" and "breaths" aply when another musician is listening to our pieces and have an idea of what's going on. I think it has nothing to do with music.
    Well, it has a lot to do with music if someone is going to play it! But if we are talking about strictly MIDI-synth than sure, I agree, just do what sounds good.

    I do think that if you're trying to write orchestrally for samples that 1, you will often be forced into correct ranges by the samples anyway- and if the samples transpose out of range it will usually sound pretty dumb, and 2, I think even untrained people will often get antsy during passages that run on so long a real player could never breathe.

  6. #6

    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    All of us are cheating if we are using samples, but only cheating musicians out of a gig that they would normally get paid for. Sorry I had to say that for those who dispise the whole idea of sampling. Quite frankly, I know many phenominal musicians, and NONE of them are intimidated by any samples.... ever.

    Most of the music that I have created with sample technology is for fun and for learning the trade. I feel like I can speak for the majority here, my use of samples is only making music that otherwise would have never been made.

    It is wonderful to have the tools to finally create something of my own, even if it's not an original work. I have been undeservedly blessed beyond belief with positive comments about the music that I have created, and that has been invaluable for my self esteem.

    I personally never go beyond the range of the real instrument. I always pay close attention to phrases for breathing, that in itself is a "must" thing for attempting realism with midi productions.

    dpDan

  7. #7

    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    what you actually mean by cheating (changing volume, tweaking instruments, etc). here is very "innocent" form of it.

    there's another thing that bothers me more, however. example that comes to mind: you are scoring music for a movie. action takes place in, say, XIV century England. and director wants you to make very spectacular music, Hollywoodish blah blah. So, you put down your medieval manuscripts and make bombastic score, using shakuhachi flutes, duduks, taiko drums, didgeridoos and whatnot, you force orchestra to play zimmeristic passages based on military marches of the Red Army, everybody's happy, cool movie! Of course it's for entertaining not education, so... you tell me about cheating

    and then people say: English music of XIV century was...

    yeah

  8. #8

    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    For me this represents two rather different ways of using the computer as a sound generator.

    One way is to use samples and sounds as an aid for hearing how it's going to sound when the real guys play it - which eventually they will. In those cases, of course, I do no cheating. I actually tend to write for those particular guys, keeping in mind how they, as musicians, will feel about it and how they will handle it. I generally don't write "a part for baritone saxophone", but rather a part for that particular saxophonist "Steve" or whatever. However, I rarely play the mock-up to the musicians in the beginning of the session, saying "This is what I had in mind".

    The other way is to view the possibilities as just a huge palette of colors in sound, and then that's the way I use it. Do I need a really dark, wierd sounding violin? Well, let's pitch the cello up 3 octaves .. and if that provides what was needed then it's all good.

    For me, I tend to think in terms of instruments whenever I do something. At least, I tend to differentiate between instruments and artificial atmospheres and stuff .. so I guess that sort of gets represented in the way my arrangements and thus also in the way I use the sounds.
    Kid: When I become an adult I wanna be a musician.
    Parent: Son, you cannot become both.

  9. #9

    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredProgGH
    Well, it has a lot to do with music if someone is going to play it! But if we are talking about strictly MIDI-synth than sure, I agree, just do what sounds good.

    I do think that if you're trying to write orchestrally for samples that 1, you will often be forced into correct ranges by the samples anyway- and if the samples transpose out of range it will usually sound pretty dumb, and 2, I think even untrained people will often get antsy during passages that run on so long a real player could never breathe.
    Good points Fred! Both on the samples and the performance Winds playing sustains throughout a song can be very borin and un-natural. Stretching samples is nice sometimes... when you stretch downwards mostly.

    Hehe, if someone wanted to play my stuff, i'd put a couple of pauses for breaths, sure. But i'm pretty happy with samples at the moment as they feel more personal.
    Theo Krueger - Composer

    www.TheoKrueger.com

    Kontakt 2 Scripts

  10. #10

    Re: Ok, how many of you cheat?

    It's common knowledge in the trade that 63% of pop music, 45% of movie music, and 87% of Broadway show music is roughed out using Band in a Box.
    92.5% of all statistics are made up on the spur of the moment.

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