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Topic: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

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  1. #1

    Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    I'm just curious as to why there isn't more discussion over this. I figured this would be a hot topic after NAMM. I was very impressed with their move to VST (finally ) and am very excited to get my hands on this when its ready.

    Is it too little too late for some of you? I was never very happy with the standalone version of Gigastudio, it just didn't fit my workflow well (bugs nonwithstanding.) Now I'm ready to re-evaluate this position. I got a first hand look (or two) while at NAMM and the performance was pretty spectacular. I'm also in love with the Portamento Time filters for Sonic Implants libraries. It was a pretty powerful demonstration that Gigastudio still possesses great abilities. The DEF filters were also very impressive (although I had a hard time hearing it due to the noise levels of the show.)

  2. #2

    Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    It's like an affair: now that the secret's out, it's no longer as exciting.

  3. #3

    Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    When it's out and runs with stability on both Mac and PC platforms, the discussion will be interesting - until then - things to do and music to make...
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  4. #4

    Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    That's good news but it wont make a deference in my setup, but it would have made a big deference last year. I'm very happy to hear this anyway.

  5. #5

    Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    If it runs as stable on my Mac as it did on my PC (unlike many people, I never had any major problems) I'd love to pick it up whenever it comes out. It's always better to run samples in their native for rather than coverting them (plus I'm lazy and don't feel like dealing with some of the conversion problems I know I'll encounter....). But otherwise I dont' really think there's much of anything useful to be said about it until it is finally released.
    Tim

  6. #6

    Question Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    I am really happy with GS3, but I have one question about the VST:
    Is gonna be the same but just as a VST or is gonna be specialized in some kind of library?
    Eduardo Tarilonte |Sample Library Developer
    SampleLibraries |MyWeb

  7. #7

    Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    I think there are some very interesting issues with GVI;

    1) does it rely on GSIF drivers anymore?
    2) if not, will the performance (polyphony) be at the same level, or drop?
    3) how will the VSL performance tool fit into the new architecture (I'm aware this has already been discussed)?
    4) Tascam have a huge market opportunity, with the large number of disgruntled VSL users who either can't or won't upgrade to Vienna Instruments.
    - can they do something with iMidi to significantly narrow the gap, in terms of articulation management, with the new Vienna Instruments. If they could, then they might easily pursuade VSL users to upgrade to GS4 for $600, rather than upgrade to VI for $6000. (VSL are competitors now, so it should be gloves off!)

    5) can they do someting to narrow the gap between K2 scripting and iMidi's capabilities, and can they foster an enthustiastic end user community to start developing them?
    6) can they squeeze more than 16 channels out of a single instance to reduce instances (or are they limited by the VST standard)?
    7) hurrah for getting rid of the the mixing and sound processing overhead, and focusing just on sample playback and artciulation management?
    8) can they develop the "stacking" capability into a 2nd dimension ? (similar to Vienna Instruments concept)
    9) can they, and are they willing to open iMidi up more for end-user programming?
    10) can they implement a standard iMidi rule to immitate Theo's TKT method for K2 (this would be a huge step just of itself)?
    11) can they make the ADSR envelope controls directly attributable to CC's, (rather than having to delve into GigaEditor and creating new instruments)?
    12) can they attract third party Giga-Instrument developers, to gain another revenue source?
    www.naxosradio.com
    VSL Symphonic Cube, PLAY Gold, Project SAM, Altiverb, US2400, Cubase 4

  8. #8

    Smile Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    Ok I will give a try at answering some of Drew's questions though be forewarned that I am not an employee of TASCAM and I am sure the product's spec is subject to some evolution before release.

    1 - No GSIF is needed
    2 - Right now there is a 256 voice cap per instance of the GVI Engine this might just be for the time being I really don’t know. I can tell you that we were running P4 3.2 GHz 2gb of ram machine at NAMM and were able to easily get those 256 voices while running in sonar with only about 25% cpu load. Keep in mind that this is also a beta build so I would think it would only get more efficient
    3 - I don't know, I am more of a SI fan
    4 - iMIDI is pretty powerful already, used in conjunction with building .gsi files it is pretty easy to build a very easy to manage powerful template.
    5 - There is a lot of power in the iMIDI capabilities though a lot of the capabilities must be built in by the architect of the library, which some sound developers have done quite well. I think we can expect to see the more and more very relevant iMIDI rules in the future.
    6 - I'm not sure
    7 - It is very efficient and super easy to use
    8 - I can't speak to their plans, only what was shown at NAMM
    9 - Ditto to #8
    10 - Ditto to #9
    11 - If initially programmed in the .gig file it will work fine, as far as accessing mapping this functionality via quick-edit I'm not too sure.
    12 - I think so; it seems to be a pretty awesome step forward for TASCAM. I know my favorite developer is really enjoying the new GVI
    Al J.
    Sonic Implants
    http://www.sonicimplants.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    I made a call and got some answers for you. I can't answer anything that isn't public. They don't tell me, either. Also, I'm sure some of the finer points are still in design, and that there is a degree of evolution still in play just based on developer feedback from NAMM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Buchan
    I think there are some very interesting issues with GVI;

    1) does it rely on GSIF drivers anymore?
    No. It's all about your DAW engine at that point. Good DAW, Good audio drivers from your hardware company, good performance. Bad DAW, WalMart interface, you takes your chances...but no worse than any other plugin is going to perform on the same setup.

    2) if not, will the performance (polyphony) be at the same level, or drop?
    Indeterminate. As good as any other plugin, in general.

    3) how will the VSL performance tool fit into the new architecture (I'm aware this has already been discussed)?
    That's a variable. Cakewalk has MFX, for instance. It's conceviable that the DAW's plugin architecture could allow what is essentially a MIDI FX insert. It's also conceivable that the user group that already runs VSL might persuade or grease Garth's way towards converting VSL to run natively in GS-3. Everything that VSL needs to run natively is already in the feature set. It has just not been converted, and I think people can probably be fairly sure that with Vienna's decision to market its own player, that they'll not be taking on conversion of their older products to run equivalently. So, I imagine that would be up to end users and third parties to bring forward.

    We already kicked around the idea of putting together an interested group of VSL users, to see what options we might have--either the Garth option, or just splitting up the workload and doing it all ourselves.

    4) Tascam have a huge market opportunity, with the large number of disgruntled VSL users who either can't or won't upgrade to Vienna Instruments.
    - can they do something with iMidi to significantly narrow the gap, in terms of articulation management, with the new Vienna Instruments. If they could, then they might easily pursuade VSL users to upgrade to GS4 for $600, rather than upgrade to VI for $6000. (VSL are competitors now, so it should be gloves off!)
    See above. All the Performance-tool VSL functionality and more is already in the GS-3 toolset. Some of the VSL player technology is perhaps not in the toolset, but there ARE some generic iMIDI scripts built in that can be customized. So, there is every reason to believe that almost all the functionality could be implemented, and that anyone, including an end user, could do it

    5) can they do someting to narrow the gap between K2 scripting and iMidi's capabilities, and can they foster an enthustiastic end user community to start developing them?
    I'm sure they're keeping that in mind. It's no secret that people desire it, although the other side of the coin is that there is an enormous amount of functionality in iMIDI that no one is using, and which does many of the same things.

    6) can they squeeze more than 16 channels out of a single instance to reduce instances (or are they limited by the VST standard)?
    That's a VST issue. You can't differentiate ports within a single input channel. Multiple instances are a necessary byproduct at this juncture.

    7) hurrah for getting rid of the the mixing and sound processing overhead, and focusing just on sample playback and artciulation management?
    Likely a very negligable issue. Look at your Giga 3 CPU meter at idle with no DSP load. It's pretty much a situation of nothing from nothing, so I have doubts as to whether it's actually **hurting** performance for that stuff to be there.

    On the other hand, the full Giga software performs those overhead duties at a very low level, much more efficiently than can be achieved otherwise. So, for the standalone, I just don't think "hurrah" would be the response standalone users would have. Those features are slick and good...and Giga 4 might have some surprises in that regard, too, if I'm guessing (disclaimer: which I am) correctly.

    8) can they develop the "stacking" capability into a 2nd dimension ? (similar to Vienna Instruments concept)
    This is already there, and WAY more. I alluded to this earlier. GigaStudio 3.0's iMIDI and dimension features are essentially what it would have required for VSL to achieve its next generation. VSL just didn't go that way. But all those feature are still there for anyone to use, and in addition, there is another entire layer of transitional features (a la Sonic Implants) which can be designed into the VSL-like features. So, all that stuff is there right now.

    9) can they, and are they willing to open iMidi up more for end-user programming?
    There is an iMIDI rule right now that is essentially a roll-your-own. People don't talk about it much, and I am not a script-head, so I can't answer the question definitively. What exists today are iMIDI scripts that will emulate VSL, iMIDI scripts that drive Sonic Implants features, iMIDI scripts that drive the GigaViolin, iMIDI scripts that drive things which have never even been done, and the generic roll-your-own iMIDI script.

    So, in actuality, I think the situation is more that end users are not aware of what is already there to a large extent, and much of what people desire scripting to achieve might be pre-rolled for them!!

    10) can they implement a standard iMidi rule to imitate Theo's TKT method for K2 (this would be a huge step just of itself)?
    Theo, if you are following (or if someone can point him to me), I have arranged for him to be able to discuss this with someone who can either say, "yes, it's possible," or if not, to take the information and make it happen if Theo would like that.

    11) can they make the ADSR envelope controls directly attributable to CC's, (rather than having to delve into GigaEditor and creating new
    instruments)?
    This, I don't know. I know they've been looking at all sorts of control issues for Giga 4, but I don't know specifics there at all. I know that they plan for the Quick-Edit functionality to all be present in GVI, and for that functionality to be essentially the "second generation" of Quick-Edit.

    12) can they attract third party Giga-Instrument developers, to gain another revenue source?
    Well, they've given third party Giga-Instrument developers a pretty big hunk of new possibility, so that's a wait-and-see.

    This is all based on the NAMM announcements, which were all about GVI. The only other aspect I can think of that might clarify some issues is that GVI exists in two forms...a generic one that just loads GIG/GSI files like Giga does (except in plugin form) and a custom-UI version where developers can release standalone "wrapped" versions of their instruments. The custom-UI versions aren't generic, and can't load anything except the instrument they're wrapping.

  10. #10

    Re: Tascam - Gigastudio Virtual Instrument?

    Here are two simple suggestions for Giga 4:

    1) Currently you can stack and mask on a channel. However, transposition is done per instrument. I think it would be cool to be able to stack instruments and slide them around in the stack horizontally.

    There are two common uses for stack and slide: one is when you stack tuned instruments for multi-timbral playback and offset the sounds by an octave. This is very cool for organs and heavy synths. The other is to make a custom percussion instrument: I might want SI's congas, VSL's glass and Doru's log drums all mapped side by side. Stack and slide lets me quickly make a custom instrument that I can play live.

    2) DEF on velocity for percussion. Currently DEF is in iMIDI, and I can apply it to a controller, but not to velocity. I messed with the Synth 1 filter on some percussion gigs, and it worked really well. I had to "play" it with the mod-wheel though, which isn't ideal. The results were really great though. I got a similar effect to Larry Seyer's tom position control. The real advantage is that with DEF you can use a single sample and get lots of expression with no harsh jumps.

    Anyway, those are some simple improvements that don't require any new technology development or inventions. They're just a matter of refining what's already there.

    -JF

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