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Topic: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

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  1. #1

    How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    Hello:

    Here is the problem I have when I use Gigastudio (GS3) along with my other VST instruments. I have Gigastudio in a separate computer and connected to my Sequencing PC (Cubase SX) throught MIDI and SPDIF cable. When I record the midi file as I play the controller I can play along with the other tracks in Cubase SX, no problem. But when I record the audio that is routed through the Gigastudio computer, I get a latency in my GS3 audio track, that is misaligned from my other VST and other audio tracks. The Latency compensation in cubase SX is of no help here, as Gigastudio is on a separate computer.
    (The GS3 computer has Audiophile 2496 card set to 384 samples buffer)
    (The Cubase SX computer has a Terratec EWS88D card set to 512 samples buffer)

    So what I do is, I end up manually dragging the audio files back to line up, and this cannot be very accurate. There's got to be a better way. Is there a better way. Help.

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    hi,

    My first question is what do you mean "route the audio" throught the giga computer? If you have a separate giga computer, I assume you've dedicated it to giga only. If you have a separate computer (your DAW) for sequencing and recording audio, why must you route audio? Do you mean the audio coming out of the giga, your sampled instruments, has latency? I assume you're referring to sampling with giga, but why would you be doing that at the same time you are playing into a sequence and listening to midi tracks?

    Jerry





    Quote Originally Posted by ddarwin7
    Hello:

    Here is the problem I have when I use Gigastudio (GS3) along with my other VST instruments. I have Gigastudio in a separate computer and connected to my Sequencing PC (Cubase SX) throught MIDI and SPDIF cable. When I record the midi file as I play the controller I can play along with the other tracks in Cubase SX, no problem. But when I record the audio that is routed through the Gigastudio computer, I get a latency in my GS3 audio track, that is misaligned from my other VST and other audio tracks. The Latency compensation in cubase SX is of no help here, as Gigastudio is on a separate computer.
    (The GS3 computer has Audiophile 2496 card set to 384 samples buffer)
    (The Cubase SX computer has a Terratec EWS88D card set to 512 samples buffer)

    So what I do is, I end up manually dragging the audio files back to line up, and this cannot be very accurate. There's got to be a better way. Is there a better way. Help.

    Thanks

  3. #3

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrygerber
    hi,

    My first question is what do you mean "route the audio" throught the giga computer? If you have a separate giga computer, I assume you've dedicated it to giga only. If you have a separate computer (your DAW) for sequencing and recording audio, why must you route audio? Do you mean the audio coming out of the giga, your sampled instruments, has latency? I assume you're referring to sampling with giga, but why would you be doing that at the same time you are playing into a sequence and listening to midi tracks?

    Jerry

    Thank Jerry

    Sorry if it was confusing. What I meant was the second half of your response. The audio that comes out of the giga sampler records onto my sequencer later than the midi track.

    Here is an example. Say I have 3 tracks total in my sequencer, 2 midi tracks and 1 audio track.

    Midi track 1 - Has a VSTi piano plugin
    Midi track 2 - Routed to the gigastudio PC (say for examples I have String sounds loaded in GS3)
    Audio track 1 - Records the Audio (String sounds) coming out of the Gigastudio PC (Triggered by Midi track 2).

    Using my controller, If I were to record the same midi information into both the midi tracks, everything seems OK. I can hear both the sounds simultaneously and they are aligned. Everythink is OK.

    But you cannot mix down audio with a midi track routed to GS3, you have to render it first to an Audio track This is where my problem is. By the time the audio coming out of the Gigastudio PC is recorded in my sequencer as an audio track, it is lagging behind the Midi track1 VSTi piano track.

    And they are out of sync

    Is that a little better explanation of my problem. May be there is a much better way to do all this.

    Thanks again

  4. #4
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    Sounds to me like your buffer is set to high in the sound card, or look for a gsif buffer setting?

    Steve

  5. #5

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    If the latency is constant, then once you know what it is, it should be a simple matter to select all the audio files and nudge them by the appropriate number of samples. I know that this is just a fix, but it would only take a matter of seconds.

    D

  6. #6

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    Not sure, but thought this thread might be relevant:

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=42225

  7. #7

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    What I do is sequence all of my midi tracks first, many of those tracks are sent to separate giga computers, the audio from giga comes back into my board for mixing.

    When I am done with the sequence, I render the whole sequence at once to audio, usually 2 stereo tracks. That is, I would think the most simple and straightforward way to do it. But it sounds like you're still working on recording midi tracks while trying to render audio tracks at the same time. There are probably latency settings in your sequencer (I use Sonar, not Cubase) that you can try to tweak. But if you complete your midi sequence before rendering audio that should also work.

    Jerry


    Quote Originally Posted by ddarwin7
    Thank Jerry

    Sorry if it was confusing. What I meant was the second half of your response. The audio that comes out of the giga sampler records onto my sequencer later than the midi track.

    Here is an example. Say I have 3 tracks total in my sequencer, 2 midi tracks and 1 audio track.

    Midi track 1 - Has a VSTi piano plugin
    Midi track 2 - Routed to the gigastudio PC (say for examples I have String sounds loaded in GS3)
    Audio track 1 - Records the Audio (String sounds) coming out of the Gigastudio PC (Triggered by Midi track 2).

    Using my controller, If I were to record the same midi information into both the midi tracks, everything seems OK. I can hear both the sounds simultaneously and they are aligned. Everythink is OK.

    But you cannot mix down audio with a midi track routed to GS3, you have to render it first to an Audio track This is where my problem is. By the time the audio coming out of the Gigastudio PC is recorded in my sequencer as an audio track, it is lagging behind the Midi track1 VSTi piano track.

    And they are out of sync

    Is that a little better explanation of my problem. May be there is a much better way to do all this.

    Thanks again

  8. #8

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    ddarwin ,

    What I have done to "measure" that latency value when recording the output of a Giga PC in my Mac G5 with Logic pro was this simple procedure.
    It can be done with any DAW.

    I took a one shot pulse wave sample ( can be any sound with a sharp attack)
    then I made a "program" out of it by mapping it to a key on the keyboard with the EXS sampler within Logic.

    I did the same thing and created a .gig file on GS3.

    I then recorded a quarter note midi track for a few bars in Logic that triggers that sound in both the EXS track and the Giga track.

    When rendering the Giga audio output in Logic , I could compare the EXS "rendered" track to the Giga "rendered" track.

    I then , "slided" the giga track to match the EXS track and found out the value of the offset.

    You can then apply that offset every time you render from Giga.

    My buffer settings in Giga are 64 samples using an RME hdsp9632 and 128 samples in Logic with an M-Audio Firewire 1814.

    When I track using Giga , I set the M-audio card to "zero-latency" monitoring settings , meaning that the audio goes in and out of the card so it doesn't use the Logic mixer to monitor. But when rendering , I have to use the Logic input and disable the "zero latency" settings in the M-audio card.
    The latency is due to the fact that an additional 128 samples are added in the audio chain .

    Maybe there's an easier way to calculate that offset , or a more precise way....anyhow , this method works.

    all the best

    Yves

  9. #9

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    I like to work the same way as Jerry does......When you're dealing with midi, everything you are dealing with is consistant ....Audio has different latency characteristics that you are now finding out ....When rendering your midi tracks to AUDIO , you will be on the same page ( samples ) when recording your actual vocal's ( audio ) and it will all line up ...You won't have to deal with latency at all since they were both be "audio" tracks.....Jim

    BTW ....I ask myself this question...I wonder if you recorded everything useing SMPTE if it would make a difference, or would you still have a latency difference ..???????.....My thoughts are you would still have a latency differential ...Jim

  10. #10

    Re: How to compensate for latency using Gigastudio on seperate PC - Help??

    Yves, thanks for that latency tip, it's better than what I've been doing. Getting Giga to render with the latency accounted for is something I will try.

    I've faced similiar issues as ddarwin, in that not all of my audio is coming from a single source (giga computers.) Some comes from VST instruments locally, some are recorded live tracks, and some of the local audio tracks are being routed from the DAW to one of the GS comps for Gigapulse.

    The only real issue was the latency from the GS comps relative to the local audio (since VST and audio were sync'd already, and basically treated the same way.) The latency from the GS comps was due directly to the use of Gigapulse convolution, not the result of gigastudio latencies, which seem otherwise nearly a perfect match with the local stuff.

    The only way I've found so far has been measuring the latency (as suggested above) and after rendering the giga tracks, moving them over by that exact amount, which honestly has just been a best guess after experimenting for a while. I can't remember off hand what that value is, since the template I've been using already has tracks offset so I just have to drop the files in after a render. That's the best solution I've had so far - and far from a happy one.

    This was not a problem when I was using Giga-Teleport, since the DAW was treating the GS comps as VSTi's, and the automatic compensation in SX3 was lining everything up correctly. I changed to soundcards to get the ASIO2 capability to use Gigapulse on QLSO/Stormdrum stuff on other machines, as well as to run multiple instances of GP without the explosions. So for me it was a trade off. I really miss the latency thing not being an issue.

    If anyone has other thoughts, I'd like to hear them, because like ddarwin, I've been thinking that their must be a better way to do this. This current method feels too sloppy to be the best way, even if it comes out okay in the end.

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