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Topic: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

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  1. #1

    Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    When the keys are pressed on an acoustic piano, the strings for keys that are already pressed also vibrate sympathetically.

    It's not the case with Ivory.

    It's the case with my ROLAND RD700 SX.

    they write :

    http://www.synthogy.com/pages/ivory.html

    >>Sympathetic String Resonance

    A lie !

    I'm disapointed.

    Regards,

    lostartist

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    Do you do a lot of this on a given gig?

  3. #3

    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    I too am disappointed with Ivory "Sympathetic Resonance"... they call it that but that's not really what it is. It is more of an acoustic resonance with the soundboard when the pedal is down, and is unnaturally biased towards the upper end of the keyboard range.

    My old Oberheim/Viscount "Mini grand" module does a better job at sympathetic resonance than Ivory.

    Having said that, Ivory is an excellent program! It sounds great! But they can make it better with true sympathetic string resonance and variable pedaling... (Roland already has variable pedaling). Also, the ability to set velocity response to send 0 at extremely low velocities so the piano key doesn't strike the string, just like a real piano, would improve playing realism.

    I sent these suggestions to Synthogy and they agreed... perhaps in a future update!

    Cheers,

    Ray Lyon
    www.balsampillow.com

  4. #4

    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    Quote Originally Posted by balsampillow
    I too am disappointed with Ivory "Sympathetic Resonance"... they call it that but that's not really what it is. It is more of an acoustic resonance with the soundboard when the pedal is down, and is unnaturally biased towards the upper end of the keyboard range.

    My old Oberheim/Viscount "Mini grand" module does a better job at sympathetic resonance than Ivory.

    Having said that, Ivory is an excellent program! It sounds great! But they can make it better with true sympathetic string resonance and variable pedaling... (Roland already has variable pedaling). Also, the ability to set velocity response to send 0 at extremely low velocities so the piano key doesn't strike the string, just like a real piano, would improve playing realism.

    I sent these suggestions to Synthogy and they agreed... perhaps in a future update!

    Cheers,

    Ray Lyon
    www.balsampillow.com

    Right !

    Ivory sound great !

    One of the best Piano around here with AKP.

    But i'm really disapointed by their sympatic resonance.

    I hope it will be in the future update !
    (AKP will have it in the next update too...)

    Regards,

    lostartist

  5. #5

    Smile Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    Lostartist:
    "When the keys are pressed on an acoustic piano, the strings for keys that are already pressed also vibrate sympathetically."

    Bruce:
    "Do you do a lot of this on a given gig?"

    I have to agree with Bruce on this one! There has been a lot of talk about this feature on this forum. Although I'm sure it's a pretty cool and impressive trick - when do you actually need it on a gig? I can understand it if you're a solo live pianist, but then - wouldn't you play a real grand piano?

    A more useful feature, in my opinion, is true re-pedalling.

    Ivory sounds great, even without sympathetic string resonance!

  6. #6

    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    With no scientific evidence to back me up, I've noticed that Ivory sounds better on my new G5 than on my old G4. The reason is either a different interface (Metric Halo vs. Digidesign 192) or the speed of the processor at returning all the details of the sound (if that makes sense). I agree the sympathethic response is not what it could be. Not to brag, but I prefer recording my Steinway M at home when I need the highest quality results. I'll use Ivory for speed and ease when its part of a bigger mix.

  7. #7

    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lostartist
    >>Sympathetic String Resonance

    A lie !

    I'm disapointed.

    Regards,

    lostartist
    Maybe it's time to put a few items from the "time to get a life" aisle in your shopping cart?

    let me simplify this:

    Use Ivory in a mix. Is it musical (strictly subjective - your opinion only)?

    if answer is yes, then you're done, move on.
    If the answer is no, then don't use it.

    While some of you guys geek out over concepts and ideas, some of us are making music.

    And as a pianist, I find Ivory to be quite musical. And it works well in the mix. Put it through a top-shelf reverb and appropriate EQ, and it fits quite nicely with just about anything.

    But if you'd rather argue about the concepts of what makes an instrument feel good, well, whatever...

  8. #8

    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    Not to sound crass, but who cares? Ivory is a great product. If you don't like it or get better results from the Roland, plug that sucker in!

  9. #9

    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malo
    Lostartist:
    "When the keys are pressed on an acoustic piano, the strings for keys that are already pressed also vibrate sympathetically."

    Bruce:
    "Do you do a lot of this on a given gig?"

    I have to agree with Bruce on this one! There has been a lot of talk about this feature on this forum. Although I'm sure it's a pretty cool and impressive trick - when do you actually need it on a gig? I can understand it if you're a solo live pianist, but then - wouldn't you play a real grand piano?
    No, i have to be disagree.

    I think you don't know what is the Sympathetic String Resonance.
    Without this the Piano and sound behaviour is false :

    Some sounds are missing even in a MIX !!!!!

    And Sympathetic String Resonance works already with some gig sampled piano library but not in Gigastudio format....(Sorry Bruce)

    I'm sure that the Ivory engine can do this in the next update.

    But Synthogy have to be carefull when they write "real Sympathetic String Resonance " or "Sympathetic String Resonance" as a feature.

    Yamaha, Roland, Kawai have already find a soluce. (And kornel http://music.mezo.com/ )

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    310

    Re: Ivory : where is the Sympathetic String Resonance ?

    The fact is many developer use the term "sympathetic resonance" to describe damper pedal effect only.

    This may not be accurate, but it's not "false".

    Even Roland, call his damper pedal effect "sympathetic resonance" IN ALL STAGE PIANOS : nobody told them it's fasle. Only the RD700SX provide true resonance between keys rules though.

    Another fact : Even if full sympathetic resonance behavior add more harmonic substance to every play, it seems some players don't feel the need for that, or consider it cherry on the cake. Maybe they are just not interested in the theory .
    A piano with true sympathetic resonance makes the difference with the same piano without this feature. When comparing different pianos, timbre taste, miking/accoustic space or damper behavior have more subjective weight.

    IMO, between the cherry and the cake, Ivory needs first to improve his DSP damper pedal effect before adding true sympathetic resonance rules. Those great samples deserve it...

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