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Topic: The PowerMac G5 Cello

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  1. #1
    Senior Member fastlane's Avatar
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    The PowerMac G5 Cello

    An Apple Power Mac G5 and a cello are being combined to create a new kind of musical instrument which will be premiered in London this week.

    http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2150564/air-g5-string

  2. #2

    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    quoted from the article....

    "His colleague Professor Peter Wiegold builds on this sentiment about the use of Midi in composition and performance, no matter how impressive the sound created. "Midi-sequencing we all know is fixed. There is no life in it," he said."

    I beg to differ
    dpDan

  3. #3
    Senior Member newmewzikboy's Avatar
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    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    Sorry Dan:

    As much as I enjoy and respect what you have done with sequencing, and I mean that, I have to agree with that quote.

    As I listen to more and more live players, its become quite clear that there is infinite more missing than we can ever capture in sequencing. The other day, I was listening to Nigel Kennedy play "Lark Ascending" on recording. Fogetting whether you like either Mr. Kennedy or R.V. Williams for a second, nothing in his performance or his sound can be replicated, or you could spend years and $$$ trying to basically put Nigel in a box. Whether you want to argue the point or not, sequencing, for me, has taken most of the joy out of simple act of writing. You end up chasing down a dead alley instead of spending more of time on the abstract bits - composing. To get around it, I have to spend extraordinary imagination now - to ignore trying to do anything picture perfect, to imagine what the sound would be like live, to write the piece to give to live players. In other words, a mock up that just gets me by in a quick and dirty way. It's painful and the choices are small - spend all your time and $$$ trying to get a performance that isn't close to real and is emotionally dead; or spend your concentration and imagination.

    Gary, Synful, Motu, others, make decent solo sampled instruments...but don't fool me ever on coming close. And the nuances of the orchestra individual sections and mix of sections just cannot be pushed through a sequencer. You can do your drop needle bits once in a while as a joke, or as an experiment, but you cannot do it consistently over many types of pieces...which is why I gave up listening to the demos here on the forum or online.

    Even a G5 cello is a dead effort. You can't isolate the original performance from the sample. Maybe a modelled instrument? But, I like the real ones not coming from speakers which distort the original sound...and so on...

    Perhaps what happens is people get so used to the sampled/seqence sound that they no longer notice. I dunno, but I sure do notice, and hate it...
    75,000th Post Winner on the Garritan Forum
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  4. #4

    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    NMB, I don't know what you posted because I can't see your posts,

    my choice.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    I see it and I have to agree with him. As far as midi has come it will never replace spontaneity of human creativity!

  6. #6

    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    quoted from the article....

    "His colleague Professor Peter Wiegold builds on this sentiment about the use of Midi in composition and performance, no matter how impressive the sound created. "Midi-sequencing we all know is fixed. There is no life in it," he said."

    I beg to differ
    dpDan
    Beg to differ? Good. So do I.

    In the hands of a skilled and talented artist (like Dan, for instance), who knows his tools and knows his music, the technology becomes an instrument -- just as valid in its expressiveness and "human touch" as any other.

    Other than the human voice, ALL instruments are technological in nature, engineered devices, manipulated by humans to create musical sound and expression.

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  7. #7

    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    But I think the key to NMB's post is this line: "Whether you want to argue the point or not, sequencing, for me, has taken most of the joy out of simple act of writing. You end up chasing down a dead alley instead of spending more of time on the abstract bits - composing." That's a valid expression of NMB's personal experience.

    The advantage of MIDI is that you can hear the notes that you have written. It's also the disadvantage. If the sound lacks the verve of live playing, it's easy to blame the composition and get caught in an editing loop - always looking for that magic melody, when it's the magic performance that is actually lacking.

    Sure, one can go back to parchment and quill, but then you miss out on the sound check. The advantages of MIDI certainly outweigh the disadvantages.

    The good news for developers is that there is still a lot of room for improvement, and that means that there are opportunities to make and sell better and better solutions.

    This also means that the G5 Cello may not be perfect, but the competition isn't perfect either. It's all relative.

    -JF

  8. #8
    Senior Member newmewzikboy's Avatar
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    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music

    Then the most important question. Why would people who dont like synths and samples spend time in a forum for synths and samples? Why do people here insist on insulting other peoples work I can't figure out. It's not the tool that makes a creative and emotional work. I have heard bad orchestras as well as bad sequences. I think it's more the lack of talent and/or skills that make a lack of emotion, not the tools.

    So please dont come to a synth/sample forum and tell people that what they are doing is nothing but a joke. I find that a very offensive attitude.

    Tom
    You are waaaaay out of line Tom, and projecting again. I didn't insult anyones work here, especially DP who I think is probably the best at what he does. I'm only expressing my dissapointment and what I have found lacking in all of this. I have over 20 grand invested in samples alone...so don't go fingers at me, here.

    I've heard better orchestras than I have ever heard samples and sequences. And that's not the point...

    My conclusions then settle on my own compromises:

    1) You cannot recreate the beauty of a live orchestra. The best you can do is mockup something, or background it to dialog and FX in a film.
    2) You can distract yourself from writing good orchestra stuff by spending too much time in the MIDI and not enough time in writing good basic music. Sure, go ahead and orchestrate your life away, but the music construction should come first and I have heard very little that has tight construction in any demos ANYWHERE that places it first...#1...NOT #2 or #n. thats MY opinion.

    Ok, so you want to put writing the music #1 priority...so you compromise on what you can or cannot do with samples and sequencing You say to yourself, ok, I am NOT trying to recreate the orchestra. I'll do my best with what I have and move and use live players...and use samples as a creative tool...thats what I originally bought all this stuff for anyway right?

    except now the sounds get in your way of your imagining live players. Its like looking at a chess board a calculating...the pieces get in your way of visualings n-moves ahead. You can distract yourself from writing well because your samples are limited. You end up NOT using a particular sound because you dont have a good one to use, or you may not have one to throw in a machine. Your creative instinct is NOT used to the max. Or you may avoid it because its not exactly what a player can do...

    Its frustrating as hell. So, where I thought I found uses ends up being a bust:

    1) Getting a true orchestra sound is near impossible
    2) Using it as a tool is distracting to your imagination and NOT enhancing it.

    and yet...I will be first in line for GPOA...
    75,000th Post Winner on the Garritan Forum
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  9. #9

    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    In fairness, NMB's frustrations and criticisms -- I share many of them -- are absolutely valid (and I am certain he had no intention of insulting anyone -- though I differ with him about the quality of some of the compositions here).

    This is still a young technology. It has VAST room for improvement!

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  10. #10

    Re: The PowerMac G5 Cello

    To me the most frustrating aspect of writing for samples is the difficulty of writing/performing fast, fluid runs. I don't play keyboards well enough to pull off a natural performance, and samples are typically either too slow or choppy to make it really work. A "real" composer only needs to hear it in his head, write a couple of notes, put a line between them and write "gliss". The performer will take care of the details. How fast and easy is that? Instead, we slave over finding the right sample, do a bunch of takes on the keyboard, delete it all, and mouse it in, and then slave over start/stop times, velocities and envelopes.

    Where's my neural port interface adapter???

    -JF

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