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Topic: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

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  1. #1

    Red face Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Duuuhhho .. I thought I was there, I really did .. I did don't you know.

    I am using GPO in Finale then saving to MIDI then importing the MIDI file into Sonar 5.

    What's happening NOW is that, in Finale, I use the 'Expression Tool' to insert a 'rall' (slow down gradually) into the final bar of my score. This is set up using GPO 'Notation' folder with Human Playback enabled. I save this to a MIDI file. The file plays back correctly in Finale.

    When I import the MIDI file into Sonar, the last note doesn't stop sounding. It seems to my limited knowledge that the MIDI file from Finale has no 'Stop' data or signal or whatever the term is.

    I have found a work-around which is, in Finale, to attach some articulation (I use a fermata/pause/hold) to the last note. In the MIDI file this seems to then add whatever is needed to end the note sounding.

    I realise this may not be a GPO issue and is more likely to be something in Finale or Sonar. I am asking here though as there are people who are using all three (Finale, GPO, Sonar) and someone may have found the same thing happening for them. Also, I find the folks here to be more knowledgeable and friendly than most, if not all, forums I know.

    Here's hoping someone will have the answer for this one.

    Many thanks.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  2. #2
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_uk
    Duuuhhho .. I thought I was there, I really did .. I did don't you know.

    I am using GPO in Finale then saving to MIDI then importing the MIDI file into Sonar 5.

    What's happening NOW is that, in Finale, I use the 'Expression Tool' to insert a 'rall' (slow down gradually) into the final bar of my score. This is set up using GPO 'Notation' folder with Human Playback enabled. I save this to a MIDI file. The file plays back correctly in Finale.

    When I import the MIDI file into Sonar, the last note doesn't stop sounding. It seems to my limited knowledge that the MIDI file from Finale has no 'Stop' data or signal or whatever the term is.

    I have found a work-around which is, in Finale, to attach some articulation (I use a fermata/pause/hold) to the last note. In the MIDI file this seems to then add whatever is needed to end the note sounding.

    I realise this may not be a GPO issue and is more likely to be something in Finale or Sonar. I am asking here though as there are people who are using all three (Finale, GPO, Sonar) and someone may have found the same thing happening for them. Also, I find the folks here to be more knowledgeable and friendly than most, if not all, forums I know.

    Here's hoping someone will have the answer for this one.

    Many thanks.
    Michael,,
    I don't use Finale, but I do know that a tie will make a note sound indefinitely - is there one attached to a pitch without being it tying to another pitch. These "hanging" ties don't have to be the last note - they can occur anywhere - you just don't hear them until all the other voices have stopped sounding. Check to see if you have any of these; my guess is that is the culprit.

    R. Pearl

  3. #3

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Quote Originally Posted by rpearl
    Michael,,
    I don't use Finale, but I do know that a tie will make a note sound indefinitely - is there one attached to a pitch without being it tying to another pitch. These "hanging" ties don't have to be the last note - they can occur anywhere - you just don't hear them until all the other voices have stopped sounding. Check to see if you have any of these; my guess is that is the culprit.

    R. Pearl
    Many thanks for your suggestion. There are no ties in any of the staves.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  4. #4

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Two other things are good candidates for hanging notes in the data of a MIDI file:

    1. A piece of cc64 data (value 127, instead of 0) when the player is set to standard pedal mode. The Notion folder instruments are designed to work in standard pedal mode. Legato mode is handled by cc68 for these instruments.

    2. A missing note "off" command.

    Examine the MIDI data to see if you can spot either of these conditions.

    Tom

  5. #5

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Since you mention rallentando: You wouldn't be using the DXi version of GPO, would you? If so, use the VST plugin instead. Some folks say, there's an issue with the DXi plugin and tempo changes, causing notes to hang.

  6. #6

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    Since you mention rallentando: You wouldn't be using the DXi version of GPO, would you? If so, use the VST plugin instead. Some folks say, there's an issue with the DXi plugin and tempo changes, causing notes to hang.
    Good one Nickie. That's definitely on the list of possibilities. Always use the VST version in Sonar.

    Tom

  7. #7

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Hello Tom and Nickie,

    Thanks for helping out again.

    Just to confirm, this problem ONLY occurs when I insert a tempo Expression (Rall, Rit etc.) in Finale. I removed the 'Rall' and the MIDI file was fine.

    Tom, I have scoured through the 'Events List' for every track in Sonar and there are no cc64 or cc68 data to be seen anywhere. I did try putting in a cc64=0 at the end but it made no difference.

    The 'Kontakt Player' is set to 'Normal' Sustain/Sustenuto Mode.

    I can't find any list of 'note off' commands. I've tried the 'Help' file but nothing seems to fit the bill there. I probably don't know what I'm looking for

    If I could slip in a 'note-off' event manually this sounds like it might be another work around.

    Nickie, I'm definitely using the VST Plugin and not the DXi version.

    In Sonar, the note now stops abruptly at the end of the track. If I add a blank bar or drag the ends of the tracks, the notes sound continuously for however long the extra part is however far I drag it along and despite there being a blank part of the track after the last note. The sound just will not end and 'decay' naturally as it should do.

    Original MIDI file ending - Note stop abruptly at track end.



    Same MIDI file with added 'blank' bars - Notes continue to sound to the end and cut off abruptly at the end of the blank part of the track.



    Thanks again.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  8. #8

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Michael,

    Since you're using the VST version of GPO, it sure seems like the note-off event(s) is/are note being generated by Finale.

    You could confirm this using an MFX plug like Port Diag (from Ten Crazy/Markleford).

    In SONAR, the event list presents a transformation of the actual midi events. What looks like a note event with a duration in the event list is actually a composite note-on/note-off with the distance between them calculated and presented as a duration. You won't see the actual note-off in the SONAR event list. When you enter a note in SONAR, it internally generates the note-on/note-off midi events.

    If you were to re-enter the final/offending note(s) in SONAR (replacing the original ones), I suspect it would work correctly.

    None of the above does much toward coming up with a strategy to go from Finale to SONAR, though...
    Bill

  9. #9

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    Quote Originally Posted by billp
    Michael,

    Since you're using the VST version of GPO, it sure seems like the note-off event(s) is/are note being generated by Finale.

    You could confirm this using an MFX plug like Port Diag (from Ten Crazy/Markleford).

    In SONAR, the event list presents a transformation of the actual midi events. What looks like a note event with a duration in the event list is actually a composite note-on/note-off with the distance between them calculated and presented as a duration. You won't see the actual note-off in the SONAR event list. When you enter a note in SONAR, it internally generates the note-on/note-off midi events.

    If you were to re-enter the final/offending note(s) in SONAR (replacing the original ones), I suspect it would work correctly.

    None of the above does much toward coming up with a strategy to go from Finale to SONAR, though...
    Hello Bill,

    Thanks for your suggestion. I deleted the final notes of both tracks and redrew in the notes but it didn't work.

    I thought this would work as well so I was quite surprised.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  10. #10

    Re: Final Note Doesn't Stop Sounding - GPO/Finale/Sonar

    ...didn't work...
    Michael,
    You mean that it behaved as you described in the two cases above?

    If you wouldn't mind posting the midi and/or the SONAR project, we could take a look like last time...
    Bill

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