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Topic: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

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  1. #1

    Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    I'd buy Kontakt if I can be assured that I can change the starting point of sample playback with a continuous controller. As an explanation of this---
    For any single sample:
    1) If I depress a key on a keyboard, the sample should play normally starting
    at the beginning.
    2) Using a continuous controller, I would like to be able to change the point at which the sample starts to play back. For instance, for a 10 second sample:
    a) With the continuous controller at 10% of it's full-scale value, the
    sample would start playing back at the point roughly 1 second
    after the beginnning of the sample.
    b) With the continuous controller at 90% of it's full-scale value, the
    sample would start playing back at the point roughly 9 seconds
    after the beginning of the sample
    ETC. ETC. ETC. for other values from the continuous controller.
    c) No matter where the sample playback starts, the sample should
    loop.

    I'm wondering if Kontakt can do this. Gigastudio can't because the beginning of each sample is stored in memory. Does anyone know if this is possible in Kontakt?
    Thanks,
    Gabriel
    Last edited by gabriels; 04-10-2006 at 05:05 PM. Reason: not clear enough

  2. #2

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?


  3. #3

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    yikes!!!
    That's somewhat scary.
    How does one use such a script?
    I was hoping for something a little less mysterious, like assigning a cc to sample start and just playing.
    Intriguing though....
    But, would I need a different script for each length of sample?
    If I have a 1 second sample and allow for nearly a 1 second offset as the maximum, would this work for a 5 second sample, and still allow me to use the cc to start at the beginning or (with max modulation of start point) to start near the end of this long sample. Again, I would hope to be able to use the same script.

    And anyway, how are scripts used in the production of real time music?
    Thanks,
    Gabriel

  4. #4

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    Quote Originally Posted by gabriels
    yikes!!!
    That's somewhat scary.
    How does one use such a script?
    I was hoping for something a little less mysterious, like assigning a cc to sample start and just playing.
    Intriguing though....
    But, would I need a different script for each length of sample?
    If I have a 1 second sample and allow for nearly a 1 second offset as the maximum, would this work for a 5 second sample, and still allow me to use the cc to start at the beginning or (with max modulation of start point) to start near the end of this long sample. Again, I would hope to be able to use the same script.

    And anyway, how are scripts used in the production of real time music?
    Thanks,
    Gabriel
    I f you look a bit further in the thread you can see that you don´t need the script.

    I don't know if I've misunderstood you guys, but you can control sample start with MIDI quite simply via the source module (in sample mode only).
    The discrimination is ~1/128th of the length of the sample, which may not be fine enough for you. You can fade-in with a simple adhsr envelope.

    Stephen

    The function is implemented in Kontakt though I haven´t tried it myself as it came out that I don´t need to modulate the sample starts.
    regards
    Raindog

  5. #5

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    it can be done, but it depends on our performance preference

    to do it with the internal Kontakt "sample start point" modulator. you ahve to load teh full sample into RAM so that it can offset to any point in the sample in real time without any added latency.

    To do this in direct from disc mode. You could build multiple groups, each with the sample start point slightly offset (manually in the loop editor), then set each group to play only when the continuous controller is within a specific set of values.
    Its not done with a script and can be implimented really eaily, but you must first familiarize yourself with Kontakts "modular" based set up.

    extremely easy once you jsut take some time to learn it, which doesnt take long.
    Operation Mindcrime 2, in stores now.
    or go here...
    The Digital Bitphonic Orchestra
    -Ashif "Ash" Hakik

  6. #6

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    KI,
    How much latency is involved. This would be for rather disconnected and flowing music, and I might be able to put up with, say 30 ms delay. I'd rather not do it with multiple samples (each with a different starting point), and probably would need more room than I would have in RAM.

    Then again, is there a limit to the amount of ram Kontakt can utilize (the 2G limit in GStudio would be too limiting, but 3 or 4 Gig might do the trick.
    Gabriel

  7. #7

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    Quote Originally Posted by gabriels
    KI,
    How much latency is involved. This would be for rather disconnected and flowing music, and I might be able to put up with, say 30 ms delay. I'd rather not do it with multiple samples (each with a different starting point), and probably would need more room than I would have in RAM.

    Then again, is there a limit to the amount of ram Kontakt can utilize (the 2G limit in GStudio would be too limiting, but 3 or 4 Gig might do the trick.
    Gabriel
    Hi Gabriel,
    I don't think the suggestion above would lead to any additional latency. Regarding RAM, using a sample twice normally don't use up any extra memory, so that would probably not be a problem either.

    Nils

  8. #8

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    I'm still not exactly sure I understand!

    Can I choose to play direct from disk if I'm willing to suffer some latency? If I do that, can I still move the starting point of the sample with a continuous controller, or do I have to have the entire sample in RAM move the sample start?

    I wouldn't mind some latency, tho Kitoro is maybe suggesting that there wouldn't be any additional latency. Probably that's not what Kitoro meant.

    So.... in Kontakt, are you in control of whether or not you play samples directly from the disk, or directly from RAM, or (maybe), as in GigaStudio, getting only the first piece of the sample from RAM and then splicing it onto the rest of the sample as it streams off the disk?

    Is it reasonable to expect a latency of less than 100 or maybe 200 ms if it IS possible to stream directly off disk?

    Can I still vary starting point if I chose this option?
    Gabriel

  9. #9

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    There's no additional latency in either DFD or non DFD.

    and yes running direct from disc but with multile start points will increase RAM usage (it has to buffer from the multiple start points, vs having the full sample in RAM and thus having the full sample in RAM allowing fo start from anywhere)


    bascially heres the pros and cons

    Direct from disk,

    pros: ALOT less RAM usage than loading the full sample, you can have as many sample start points as you program via "groups" or layers

    cons: Sample start points are hard wired (manually chosen). A little bit more programming.


    Sampler (non DFD)

    Pros: Able to start sample from anywhere, without having to program "groups" or layers

    Cons: More RAM is used since the whole sample is loaded, and can be up to and more than 50 times as much depending on sample size.
    Operation Mindcrime 2, in stores now.
    or go here...
    The Digital Bitphonic Orchestra
    -Ashif "Ash" Hakik

  10. #10

    Re: Can I vary sample playback starting point?

    Thanks to all,
    I believe I understand now. I've downloaded the K2 demo to see if I'd be happy with the way K2 allows me to vary starting point.
    I don't yet see how to attach a cc source to starting point. Could someone help me a little here?

    By the way, If I do decide to use Kontakt in RAM mode, I suppose I'd want to be switching betweem sets of samples. How quickly can Kontakt load samples (as many as it would hold given a computer with 2 gigs?
    Gabriel

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