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Topic: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

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  1. #1

    Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    Hi all!

    I have TB Multisound Pinnacle Pro card, wich works great with GigaSampler. The latency is very good as it seems. Now with GigaStudio release Nemesis said that GSIF is REQUIRED for full functionality.

    1. What do I loose with DirectX card?

    2. I love the sound of my Pinnacle Pro - is the difference in latency between GSIF card and good DirectX card on good PC (AMD Athlon 800, 256 Ram, separate 40Gb UltraATA66 HDD for GS + 10Gb UltraDMA33 for system) really noticeable by ear?

    I\'m thinking about upgrading to GigaStudio, but if it means I\'d have to buy an expensive card for normal operation, I\'d have to wait then.

    Please share your experience on GigaStudio with DirectX card.

    Thank you.

  2. #2

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    RomanB

    There appear to be two main differences between a DirectX card and a GSIF card.

    1) Your directX card will probably start breaking up at a lower polyphony than a GSIF card. In short you will probably get more tracks out of a GSIF card.

    2) Your directX card will only be able to pass GigaStudio instruments through one set of NFX effects. Whereas a GSIF card will allow you to assign different NFX effects to as many different tracks as there are stereo outputs on a GSIF card. With the Darla24, 8 outputs, this means that the drums can have a plate reverb, the bass a chorus, the vocals a reverb, and the keyboard an eq.

  3. #3

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    I also own TB Multisound Pinnacle Pro card. I bought it in mid 1998. Since my card was manufactured before the emergence of DirectX, I was advised to download the latest drivers from Turtle Beach. I tested the GigaPiano for any noticeable latency. None! To my ears, my recorded audio tracks & my midi tracks are tight. But, it is worth noting that all my audio tracks are recorded on my Roland VS-1680 in synch with my computer. I don\'t know whether or not latency would be affected by having a # of audio & midi tracks on my computer.

    My computer is a Pentium III 450. I have 256mb PC100Ram, a 30 gig Maxtor hard drive (master) and a 20gig Maxtor(slave), both spin @ 7200 rpm.


  4. #4

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    I\'m confused about FX here... I thought the effects in GigaStudio were assignable to midi channels and aux buses, all software???

    Are you saying that if I only have L+R outputs I can only use ONE effect for the entire GS?

    Isn\'t it possible to send some midi channels to one NFX and others to other, and pass them all through \"master\" NFX? I would be entirely happy if after all this it would come out through L+R only.

    I\'m looking at the \"DSP Station\" screenshot on the Nemesys site: in that case they used a 16-out card to get that shot! And what \"AUX buses\" and \"master\" tabs mean then?

    Please explain this for me, I would like to know exactly what I buy for this kind of money...

    Thank you

  5. #5

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    I\'m currently running GigaStudio on a directX card. I will be upgrading to a GSIF card v. soon. If you run GigaStudio on a directX card you will get the same DSP station settings as me. These are...


    1) You will have only one L&R output for all your GigaStudio audio. This means one NFX setup for the lot. You can chain all four NFX effects together to make one super Reverb, Chorus, Delay, EQ.
    2) You will probably have only 1 or 2 aux busses. This means that you can chain eight NFX effects together and put all eight out of your one output. Again only one global output.
    3) You will have one master fade slider for L&R volume from your two outputs.

    If you want more effects you should go GSIF. I don\'t think current GigaStudio instruments even support an effects send (I see it there in the instrument editor but does it work?). This means that, with a directX card, a song which demands reverb on the bass will get reverb on everything. I could be wrong.

    But don\'t be too peeved. GigaStudio is awesome, I\'ve upgraded and I\'m never looking back. It HAS replaced my hardware sampler for good. For an extra few bucks you can get a Darla24 or Delta44 and enjoy the power of great zero latency effects.

    And a suggestion to Nemesys if your listening. What about an effects send slider on each midi channel in the Midi mixer view?


  6. #6

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    gigaDiga,

    In response to your question/suggestion:

    All the NFXs are midi automatable. This means that you can control any effects parameters via a midi controller - any midi controller! For instance if you want to control room size on your reverb via a foot controller on Port 1/ midi channel 1 you can. If you want to use the effects send to control delay size you can. It is completely configurable.

    All you have to do is insert an effect, assign a midi port/channel/controller to the particular parameter (use the right mouse button), and you have complete control over your effect. You can control it directly from the user interface\'s midi control surface, or from an external sequencer, or from an external midi controller.

    The performances can be used to save off midi automation configuration, so that you can quickly reconfigure your sampler workstation.

    I hope this helps.

    Joe (NemeSys)

  7. #7

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    Anyone from Nemesys, or experienced GigaStudio user, plase answer:

    MIDI Automation is great, but on what basis do you assign the NFX after all? How many NFX can you run on L+R outputs? Can you control SEND on each instrument/channel? In other words, can I put more reverb on the drums and less reverb on bass if I don\'t have multi i/o card?

    Thank you.

    Roman.

  8. #8

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    Thanks for the reply Joe.

    Midi automation on fx is a feature which I, as a cakewalk user, have been waiting for for years. It is really cool and you\'ve really blown my creative posibilities through the roof.

    The suggestion I made, however, relates more to an instrument basis. I understand that you can turn up or turn down the effect of an NFX effect. At the moment, however, it seems that the only way to keep the drums dry whilst the piano has reverb is to assign the drums to a dry stereo output. This demands a GSIF card. Even when you have a GSIF card you may find all your stereo outputs being used just to make sure different instruments have different amounts of the same effect, let alone different effects.

    It seems that the instrument properties in the instrument editor contains an effects level setting. Therefore you must have intended at some point to solve this problem on an instrument by instrument basis. I have done some simple tests with this and can only presume its not implemented as yet i.e. it doesn\'t seem to work. I was merely suggesting that, when this is implemented, it might prove more useful bringing it out into the Midi mixer and allowing people to set it on the fly, rather than having one static effects level setting hidden away in the editor.

    Aside from that I have to say WOW!, I\'ve never heard about as good technical support as you guys give. This forum is a real god-send. Just to be able to write this and feel that someone at Nemesys will read it makes me feel really comfortable that this product is being developed with the end user in mind...

    thanks

    gigaDiga :-)

  9. #9

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    gigaDiga,

    > Even when you have a GSIF card you may find > all your stereo outputs being used just to
    > make sure different instruments have
    > different amounts of the same effect, let
    > alone different effects.

    You definitely want a GSIF compatible card. But even if your GSIF card has only 4 physical outputs, the DSP station mixer will give you 32 discreate input channels, and 8 stereo aux busses. You are not limited by the physical outputs on your hardware. Each input channel has 8 aux send values (also midi automatable). You could put a reverb on aux bus 1, route the drums to input channel 1, route piano to input channel 2, and control the amount of effects with the aux sends.

    I will have someon look into the editor parameter you are speaking about, and have some respond to this thread regarding it purpose.

    Joe (NemeSys)

  10. #10

    Re: Latency: DirectX vs. GSIF - is it really that noticeable?

    OK, that sounds right. Now the bottom line:
    Am I correct to presume that I won\'t even see all those 8 stereo busses and routing you describe with a DirectX card?

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