Examples of poor orchestration

[Andy Brick]

I have to agree with Professor Belkin on this one. Great orchestrations balance themselves. Having conducted hundreds of scores I can tell you that from a conductors standpoint seeing such a thing puts up all sorts of warning flags. Its not always wrong and there are times when it is very useful but many young orchestrators do not have the experience to handle such a special situation properly.

Another point that Professor Belkin has made in this course which I hope he will elaborate upon is the concept of Foreground, Middleground and Background as well as rhythmic variance and register segregation and overlap. With a good understanding of these principles, you can begin to determine a very aesthetic manner to balance that low flute

A great example that Im sure you have seen is from the Forsyth orchestration book which is your statement almost verbatim (Pg 185 2nd edition). In Forsyths example, that wondeful little country tune from Dvoraks New World Symphony a solo p flute against ppp strings no bass works but if you look carefully, the flute is segregated in its own register, is an enitrely different rhythm, and is a foreground statement that is so obvious to the ear that the ear is immediately drawn to it. To tell someone that their orchestration would be successful simply because the strings are 2 dynamics lower than the flutes is cautionary at best.

Andy

[Sepheritoh]

Profesor Belkin touches on this aspect in his online books. The one point he makes that makes for poor orchestration is "Feebleness of effect". This is easy to spot and is something that is evident in many modern orchestrations, especially in film music orchestrations, when the scene calls for a certain mood and the orchestrator simply did not pull it off properly.

[capellen]

Well what I had in mind was Mahler's Symphony #1, First Movement in which Mahler does exactly this.

You see, this also much depends on a conductor, how he can balance the orchestra on the stage. Even poorly orchestrated scores could sound quite well with experienced conductor and vice versa. Furthermore, there are some areas, typically film and pop music, where practically any orchestration is alowed - thanks to the mighty sound technologies.

Anyway, it is wise to learn traditional orchestration principles prior you'll go to experiment. Although my previous comments that doing orchestration your own way may become your unique style, this is - unfiortunatelly - too often used just to cover composer's inabilities to do it right.... And this is, in principle, really awkward.

[belkina]

Could you specify where, I can't find any example of this in the 1st mvt.

Well what I had in mind was Mahler's Symphony #1, First Movement in which Mahler does exactly this.