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Topic: sudden severe volume decreases

  1. #1

    sudden severe volume decreases

    I've been using GPO for a couple of months and I am using it inside of Cubase VST Score. I have worked through most of the learning curve with regard to settings, but I have a recurring problem with volume drop outs. It seems to randomly drop one or more channels. Not a complete dropout just a random sudden and severe decrease in volume on one or more of the instruments.

    Before I get a bunch of replys about the volume setting and mod controller I should say that all is correct there. I am wondering if my laptop is interupting the program for background programs or something. Task manager does have about 50 programs running. Does anyone have experience with this symptom?

  2. #2

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    I'd typically suspect spurious CC#1 data getting to the track, often times through these means:

    1) Some sequencers (thinking SONAR here) have a 'Reset controllers to Zero on stip' feature that needs to be turned off. If these particular tracks have no CC#1 data before the next note plays after stopping, then it will be very quiet.

    2) If your keyboard is very old, sometimes the Mod Wheel is very loose and sends out data occasionally even if it isn't touched.

    3) In an early version of the GPO player, I know that I'd occasionally have 'phantom pitch bend' problems when clicking keys on the virtual keyboard in the GUI. Could maybe happen with Mod Wheel too? At any rate, it was fixed in a later version update, so make sure you get latest.

    However, since you're using a Scoring entry method, these problems aren't necessarily applicable.

    Do you also have dropouts if you close out a lot of the other programs?

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  3. #3

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    My guess is you won't be able to solve this. It has occured to people here before and as far as I know, noone has a solution. E.g, see:


    and see:


    Markleford and others in the above threads have made valuable suggestions all of which you should eliminate.

    In my case, I have concluded (and can prove!) it is an unexpected interaction between Kontakt Player and Cubase causing the Kontakt player to 'think' it is receiving '0' value mod wheel values. What I haven't been able to establish are the variables that are at work that initiate this, as sometimes, it doesn't happen at all.

    I have eliminated these though for my version of the problem:
    • latency settings (it occurs at all settings)
    • soundcard (I have tried 3 - Creative, MOTU and M-Audio)
    • compexity of part/volume of mididata (it happens on a single solo violin track)
    • existence of mod wheel data on other tracks 'spilling' (no effect see above)
    • existence/amount of mod wheel data on affected track (simple, complex, same result)
    • Cubase is generating spurious random mod wheel data (no, because the mod wheel drops don't get recorded and the same track playing via any other VST does not get 'hit' by the zero mod wheel data)
    • that 'It isn't really a mod wheel data-related thing' (yes it is, because if you watch the Kontakt Player Wheel during one of these drops, the wheel takes a momentary dive [or permanent if there is no further modwheel data to push it back up again].
    • hardware [it happens with NO midi hardware connected]
    • GPO Kontakt Player VST is universally the problem [no because the problem doesn't occur in Sonar]

  4. #4

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    Thanks guys. Pretty discouraging. GPO should not recommend their product be used with Cubase in that case. I wonder why they haven't said anything about this. Is it all versions of Cubase?

    I take it that Sonar works fine?

  5. #5

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    Mind, there are a ton of GPO/Cubase users out there with *no* problems. It's just that nobody has yet had that "a-ha!" moment when they definitively pinpoint why a small number of users have dropouts so it can be fixed. You're in the minority, unfortunately.

    Believe me, fixing bugs in software generally isn't that hard: finding where the bugs are in the first place, however, can be maddening!

    I use SONAR myself and have had issues in the past, as I mentioned, but they've been fixed in subsequent updates. As always, make sure you have the latest update for everything, but I understand how one might balk at paying for an upgrade if everything else is working fine!

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  6. #6

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    I think as consumers we should revolt against the software industry somehow. I know from my own experience with software manufacturing clients that the manufacturers intentionally release products with bugs because their CEO's are too greedy to wait for release for fear that the competition will get to market first. Once again the neo-American culture of greed and selfishness takes it's toll on the little people.

  7. #7

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    Well, you can revolt by not buying software. Not much else.

    Releasing software with bugs isn't a matter of malice or greed, but merely one of practicality. Quite simply, it's impossible to release an application without bugs when delivering on a platform with innumerable combinations of chipsets, RAM configuration, audio and MIDI drivers, OS choices, host of preference, version of host, and other sundry additional applications running alongside it. You simply cannot account for all of those given one frozen moment of time... and then in a month or two another developer changes their dependent software (anti-virus causes problems this way) with an OS or host upgrade. What used to work fine is suddenly broken.

    Is that the fault of greed? Hardly. Contempt for 'the little people'? Please! Software vendors *want* happy customers. What business doesn't?

    I know from my own experience as a software engineer that I don't want bugs in my code released, but often times you don't know they exist until it goes out the door and into the hands of a user in some corner of the world with permutation #345,721,660 of hardware and other software that wasn't accounted for it testing, because it's impossible to have 345,721,660 differently configured systems set up in the Quality Assurance lab.

    Instead of revolting, though, the user can work with the developer, or even other users, to attempt to reproduce the bug consistently. Only then can it be addressed by the developer. A bug report of 'something is messing up here' might not be too useful on its own. But if you try to list all you can about your system configuration and software versions, then that information can be collated with other bug reports until hopefully a pattern emerges. Then a fix can be made.

    And isn't that sort of the point of *soft*ware? Then again, even hardware these days can have bugs in it, and the firmware can be patched later, or a device driver is upgraded in the case of computer peripherals.

    At any rate, feel free to write down your software and hardware setup and send a bug to Native Instruments (or even to Garritan, who will pass along the bug to NI, who develop the player). Also, post it here: fellow users will help out when they can.

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  8. #8

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    Oh, and I forgot to add: send a copy of your error report to Steinberg, as well! Often it's hard to figure out which side of the software equation is failing.

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  9. #9

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    I'm a musician not a programmer. I want to spend my time composing not helping software developers work out bugs. That is their job.

    Contrary to your comments, it IS a fact that developers release product knowing that there are bugs within their product. It comes down to money. Of coarse developers want people to like their product. I am sure there are a multitude of reasons why products are released before the bugs are worked out. Varieties of chipsets and so forth is why we as consumers trust manufacturers to tell us the hardware requirements to make their product work.

    I am not an idiot and there is no need to talk down to me. I was once an engineer myself. People are entitled to a difference of opinion. We don't need to be rude to one another.

  10. #10

    Re: sudden severe volume decreases

    Oh yeah, also this particular problem has been known for at least a year. How come no mention on the product websites? I would expect to read up front that Cubase has a problem with Kontakt so that I could make intelligent buying decisions when putting together my system.

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