• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31

Topic: Proof-reading Thread

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Orcas Island
    Posts
    11,454

    Proof-reading Thread

    This thread is to point out any concerns found in the scores. Identifying obvious and clear errors in the scores or text are helpful.




  2. #2

    Proof-reading Thread

    I did notice a few liberties with the written note here and there in the playback files... (ob, cl, bsn). it might be good for a few people to go over the playback files and check the scores to see where there "aural" realisations don't quite match the written scores.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,797

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    I did notice a few liberties with the written note here and there in the playback files... (ob, cl, bsn). it might be good for a few people to go over the playback files and check the scores to see where there "aural" realisations don't quite match the written scores.
    Glad you mentioned that. There was one in lesson five that in the middle had an extra note or two being played. Even though it sounded great and sounded like it belonged, there were no notes on the page there and I kept playing it over and over trying to figure out if I was just hearing things not really there.

    But then i figured it out when in i think #8 of Lesson 6, player not only adds a note in the beautiful Clarinet melody, but also seems to ignore a decrescendo in that same place.

    edit: I was mistaken, it's not in #8 i don't which one it was in.

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Orcas Island
    Posts
    11,454

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    As with any performance there will be anomolies or artistic liberties here and there. We have the song files and if you identify where they are, we can fix them if they need correcting.

    Gary Garritan

  5. #5

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    I would also like to know, the excerpts of the scores, are they scanned "as is" from the RK text? or is what we are seeing the result of being entered into a notation program?

    there are a few instances of what I would consider "debatable" use of slurs/phrase-markings in a few places. And I find it extremely unlikely that RK would have made those "errors".

    If this is exactly as the RK original text is, then there are some basic musical/notational principles that need to be revised in most theory course curriculae.

  6. #6
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Orcas Island
    Posts
    11,454

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    I would also like to know, the excerpts of the scores, are they scanned "as is" from the RK text? or is what we are seeing the result of being entered into a notation program?

    there are a few instances of what I would consider "debatable" use of slurs/phrase-markings in a few places. And I find it extremely unlikely that RK would have made those "errors".

    If this is exactly as the RK original text is, then there are some basic musical/notational principles that need to be revised in most theory course curriculae.
    The scores you are seeing are entered in using notation programs by volunteers. What you would consider "debatable" or "errors" may be in the actual score. There are a lot of notes and markings and if you can pinpoint any actual errors they can easily be corrected. One of the goals of this online course is to find any mistakes and ways the course can be improved. If you want to volunteer to make any corrections you find that would be welcomed.

    Gary Garritan

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Hurricane place
    Posts
    276

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    I would also like to know, the excerpts of the scores, are they scanned "as is" from the RK text? or is what we are seeing the result of being entered into a notation program?

    there are a few instances of what I would consider "debatable" use of slurs/phrase-markings in a few places. And I find it extremely unlikely that RK would have made those "errors".

    If this is exactly as the RK original text is, then there are some basic musical/notational principles that need to be revised in most theory course curriculae.
    The examples in the back have alot of (copyist)mistakes in the store bought text. Things such as left out tempo indications, articulations, dynamic markings, ect.

    In most cases where this happens(and it seems to be alot) one can only guess or find a recording and emulate that where things are missing or questionable as to how to best perform it. In alot of cases these recordings are very hard to find.
    I found that all over the back of the shelf bought version. Simple example I remember offhand, one for example(of many)had no markings for the Violins 1/2 stops, just the notes. Eventually finding a recording it ends up that it is "chitara" pizz. There are many cases in the store bought book where there are so many things left out and copyist mistakes not to mention simple inconsistancies of instrument names. In addition there were some cases where outdated notation(often used in that time period I.E. Horn part sometimes in bass cleff, up a fourth instead of treble down a fifth) for an instrument class was never changed to what is common now.

    Another issue that sometimes causes confusion is they do not start like regular scores*at the beginning where all instruments that will be used are listed ect*. The back examples do not do this(and are excerpts from just about anytime during the piece of music in question) and often something else comes in, and I can see how this could cause issues with the flash reading and some confusion as well.
    Robert Davis

  8. #8

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    I don't want to be coming across as a complainer...
    I think this project is fantastic and realize that it's being done by volunteers.

    a few of the "errors" I've seen are:

    #40, Sheharazade, 2nd mvt, section A
    oboe melody
    measures 4-6 the slurs to and from the tied dotted quarter / sixteenth note pair are strange to say the least. If someone had the score it would be nice to get a confirmation of those slurs.

    EDIT concerning the above: I've checked some online scores and the slurs are as written. I'd be very curious to hear an oboist's take on the slurring. It really does go against everything I've been taught about woodwind tonguing/phrasing.

    #41, Shegourotchka, section 50
    oboe melody
    measure 1: the C# and D are reversed in the playback
    measure 4, the C# eighth note is missing entirely
    measure 11, the rythme is altered from what is written

    #43, The Golden Cockeral, sect. 97
    clarinet melody in the lowest register
    measures 4-5, there appears to be an octave leap (on the page turn) which goes against the apparent melodic repetition of the preceding oboe motif.
    the sound of the clarinet appears to be an octave too high as well through-out the line.

    I really appreciate the hard work that goes into realizing these recordings of the excerpts, and they really bring this project to life.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Hurricane place
    Posts
    276

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    I don't want to be coming across as a complainer...
    I think this project is fantastic and realize that it's being done by volunteers.

    a few of the "errors" I've seen are:

    #40, Sheharazade, 2nd mvt, section A
    oboe melody
    measures 4-6 the slurs to and from the tied dotted quarter / sixteenth note pair are strange to say the least. If someone had the score it would be nice to get a confirmation of those slurs.

    EDIT concerning the above: I've checked some online scores and the slurs are as written. I'd be very curious to hear an oboist's take on the slurring. It really does go against everything I've been taught about woodwind tonguing/phrasing.

    #41, Shegourotchka, section 50
    oboe melody
    measure 1: the C# and D are reversed in the playback
    measure 4, the C# eighth note is missing entirely
    measure 11, the rythme is altered from what is written

    #43, The Golden Cockeral, sect. 97
    clarinet melody in the lowest register
    measures 4-5, there appears to be an octave leap (on the page turn) which goes against the apparent melodic repetition of the preceding oboe motif.
    the sound of the clarinet appears to be an octave too high as well through-out the line.

    I really appreciate the hard work that goes into realizing these recordings of the excerpts, and they really bring this project to life.
    You cannot really use the back examples as "set in stone" as again I mentioned all the copyist mark mistakes(and indeed there are alot when one takes the time to obtain live versions of these rarely performed operas). What im curious about is how this book has been floating around for so long with missing copyist markings ranging from tempos to articulations?? One would figure after so long these things would eventually be caught/corrected. Maybe it takes the combonation of sound files/proof reading/live recordings(which are very hard to come by! I luckily found some) to clean it up as RK intended things.
    Robert Davis

  10. #10

    Re: Lesson 6 Discussion - Melody in the Wood-wind

    A couple of things that stuck out when I read the lesson:
    • Example 36: The piccolo part in the audio is not quite as written in the score.
    • Example 38: The term "flutter-tongue" is used in what I take to be a different sense from the use of the term today. This example just shows fast double-tongued notes on the flute and piccolo (they have to be double-tongued, since it's not possible to single-tongue that fast). The usual meaning of the term "fluttertongue" is a technique where the player articulates a French or Spanish "r" while playing, so the note is rearticulated indefinitely fast -- kind of the wind equivalent of a bowed tremolo on strings. The technique is usually confined to the flute family, or to wah-wah trumpet playing, but I believe it's feasible to some degree on most woodwind and brass instruments (I understand that Schoenberg used it for tuba!).
    • Example 39: The alto flute (referred to in the English by its obsolete name of "bass" flute) is written here as an F instrument, transposing a fifth downwards just like the horn. Never, ever do this! It may have been different in Rimsky's day, but now the only proper way to notate alto flute is as a G instrument, transposing a fourth downwards. In fact, it's the only G instrument in use today (though you'll see parts in older music for natural horn in G).
    • Example 41: The oboe part in the audio contains numerous errors as compared to the score.
    • Example 43: There's an odd octave leap in the clarinet part as notated in the score, but not the audio.
    • Example 45: Tempo may be a bit slow.
    • Example 46: Although this is identified as an Eb clarinet melody, note that Rimsky wrote it for D clarinet. Of course, it would be played on the Eb instrument today, since the D clarinet is no longer used.
    • In the comments about "natural order" at the end of the lesson, neither Rimsky nor Belkin mentions that it's quite common -- in fact, often desirable -- to put the clarinets higher than the oboes. This is often done to achieve a more brilliant sound, or simply because the clarinet can go higher than the oboe. In my opinion, this practice is too common to qualify as a real disturbance of "natural order".
    Hope this is helpful.
    Marnen E. Laibow-Koser
    Composer / Web developer
    http://www.marnen.org

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •