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Topic: Need help with velocity issue

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  1. #1

    Need help with velocity issue

    Hi everyone. 1st post on the forum and unfortunately it’s related to a problem in GPO.
    I’m having an issue with certain voices not responding properly to my keyboard velocity. Most of the sustained string sounds work great and follow the variations in velocity as I play. However some samples such as the key switched version of the strings cause the sound level to drop off to where it is almost inaudible. For example I can play a cello (KS) solo and in it’s normal default state it is perfect. If I then switch to pizzicato, or alternating bow, etc., I have to literally bang on the keyboard to hear a sound. Some notes play slightly louder than others but generally it is unusable by any stretch of the imagination. I have a similar situation with the pianos. Some notes have to be struck very hard to be heard at all (also unusable) while other notes respond to a feather touch.

    I use a Novation Remote 61 SL as my controller. While troubleshooting I also tried my older Roland JX-10. Both of these keyboards work extremely well with all of my other hardware and softsynths but both exhibit this problem in GPO. I have tried all the variations of velocity maps on both controllers with no luck. I have also tried all of the Kontakt player adjustments and made certain the mod wheel was engaged. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated because as it stands I can’t use GPO except for sustained individual string voices and string sections. Do I have a bad copy or bad install?

    Lastly, I did send an email to tech support roughly a week ago but haven’t received a response.

  2. #2

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Tom,

    GPO does not work like other libraries - many things depart from standard MIDI in order to give the user more expressive control. There are two basic types of instruments: Expressive and Percussive. Expressive (sustaining) instruments (like most strings and winds) do not use velocity for volume control. This is the job of the mod wheel. Velocity, in these instruments, is used for attack strength only. In comparison, percussive instruments (anything that is "strike and decay") use velocity in the standard way. Keyswitch instruments can contain a combination of mod wheel and velocity instruments (e.g. string sustain and pizz.) Please refer to the manual for more detailed information. You must familiarize yourself with GPO concepts to be able to use it successfully. Please read the manual cover-to-cover to see how things work. I'd also recommend examining the various tutorials available on this and the Garritan site.

    Tom

  3. #3

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom H
    I have a similar situation with the pianos. Some notes have to be struck very hard to be heard at all (also unusable) while other notes respond to a feather touch.
    Re-reading this part has me puzzled. This does not sound like things are working properly in your system. You should not experience large inconsistencies within a velocity type instrument. I don't recall anyone ever reporting this particular problem before and nothing obvious occurs to me that might account for it (considering that you have tried different keyboards and don't experience similar symptoms with other software.) Anyway, I'm not sure my previous response actually applies in any way to your unusual problem, if I understand it correctly.

    Tom

  4. #4

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    One more thought: I'm curious to see what you get if you create a track in your sequencer that sends chromatic notes, across the range of the instrument, at identical velocities to the GPO piano. Does the same inconsistent note-to-note performance happen then? This is an attempt to narrow things down to identify the location of the problem.

    Tom

  5. #5
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom H
    I’m having an issue with certain voices not responding properly to my keyboard velocity. Most of the sustained string sounds work great and follow the variations in velocity as I play. However some samples such as the key switched version of the strings cause the sound level to drop off to where it is almost inaudible. For example I can play a cello (KS) solo and in it’s normal default state it is perfect. If I then switch to pizzicato, or alternating bow, etc., I have to literally bang on the keyboard to hear a sound. Some notes play slightly louder than others but generally it is unusable by any stretch of the imagination. I have a similar situation with the pianos. Some notes have to be struck very hard to be heard at all (also unusable) while other notes respond to a feather touch.
    Well, as a possible way of isolating the problem, I would try these two things.

    Try an input with point and click and compare the results with your previous input.

    Or, try playing the stand alone GPO for a bit and see how it responds.

    If the results are different, this could point to a solution.

    Another thought occurred just now. Load a midi file produced my some other means, and play it back with GPO. From your description, using a piano only file would be the easiest thing, as it would involve velocity without need of mod wheel data.

    Richard

  6. #6

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Thanks to all for your responses. Funny thing is that I put together a reply yesterday and I had literally placed my cursor over the "submit reply" button when all of a sudden my entire neighborhood went black. How’s that for poor timing. Back to the topic at hand.

    Tom,
    I believe you are correct about my need to become more familiar with the GPO interface and it’s use of midi control. I plan to do just that over the holiday weekend. I suspect it is a combination of that and something going amiss with my system. In relation to the piano velocity issues, as a reference I use my keyboard controllers to play several high-end sampled pianos and I have never experienced this type of issue. In GPO I must strike every note relatively hard to get a uniform sound. The pianos play slightly better in stand-alone mode but not to a degree where I would consider them useful for playing in my projects. It acts as if something was interfering with my midi data transmission and choking it off. I plan to try your constant velocity test this weekend. If I didn't know better the sensation is one of my keyboard controller being broken.


    Richard,
    Good ideas. I do have several midi piano files that I can use to play GPO’s piano. That should help to give me a sense of direction. This, in addition to Tom’s constant velocity idea should help to determine if the problem is one of my keyboard controller data being interfered with or if GPO is having a problem receiving and processing the data.

    I do appreciate you responses and apologize that my entry into this forum is centered on a problem. If none of these trials give me a strong indication as to the source of the problem I think I may just uninstalled GPO and start over with a fresh install

  7. #7

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Tom H,

    You are not by any chance using the X-Custom instruments, are you? If so: don't!

  8. #8

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    Tom H,

    You are not by any chance using the X-Custom instruments, are you? If so: don't!
    Hi Nickie,

    Actually, I'm not sure what the X-Custom Instruments are. I have to assume that I'm not using them.

  9. #9

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom H
    Hi Nickie,

    Actually, I'm not sure what the X-Custom Instruments are. I have to assume that I'm not using them.
    I suppose so, since you don't know what they are. They are placed in a folder called "X-Custom", and the strings seem to respond to velocity instead of modwheel and the piano does have a rather uneven velocity response. Sounds familiar?

  10. #10

    Re: Need help with velocity issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    I suppose so, since you don't know what they are. They are placed in a folder called "X-Custom", and the strings seem to respond to velocity instead of modwheel and the piano does have a rather uneven velocity response. Sounds familiar?
    Thanks Nickie. Sure does sound familiar. I'll check out my data path just to be sure. When I installed a few weeks ago I just accepted the defaults with the exception of my sample drive location and VSTi location. I just let GPO install whatever folders and files it wanted to within that parameter. Looks like I have a lot of testing and trials to do this weekend.

    Out of curiousity, (for Nickie or anyone) when using a string instrument like a cello solo (KS) does triggering the pizz switch cause a dramatic loss in volume for anyone else? While in this mode, should the player be able to use his or her own playing style via velocity sensitivity to modify the expressiveness or intensity of the note? In my case I must strike the keys very hard just to get a sound. Forget about expression, I'm lucky to get a note to sound. Part of my troubleshooting dilema is not having a reference as to what is normal in terms of the final audio output.

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